Posted on 10/24/2005 7:42:18 PM PDT by ncountylee
Exactly what GOP talking points do you think sinkspur is repeating?
And if it is a "talking point" then I assume it is not a fact or an opinion that you also hold.
She wouldn't be in charge of that anyway. The city is being rebuilt with federal oversight, remember?
Where did I say I was voting for Nagin? That being said, if the election is between him and Mitch Landrieu, Nagin becomes a lesser of two evils choice.
You yourself just said Landrieu couldn't run per post #53. So who ya gonna vote for if you're not going to throw your hat in the ring? If you're not going to run then it makes no sense for you to disparage the candidate that runs against Nagin. By all accounts, Nagin must go. He isn't suited for politics and couldn't translate his business success into the public spotlight.
I've been to Wisconsin too. America's dairyland, my ass. More like America's wasteland.
The sorry Packers beat the Saints' 52-3 ROFL.
Where'd you go? Milwaukee? SE part of WI is a toilet, I'll concede. But the rest of the state is beautiful. I'm already getting pysched for deer hunting season.
"I can't imagine Nagin getting re-elected under any circumstances. His negligence cost lives."
Facts may matter little, so I rate his chances good.
Hi, omega!
I'd like your New Orleans opinion of this council member who has thrown her hat in the ring for mayor if you have time.
Even though Bush is footing the bill, he has stated repeatedly that the locals must be in charge of the rebuilding process. I'll bet you a million dollars, the feds are not going to involve themselves with something as mundane as zoning restrictions.
You yourself just said Landrieu couldn't run per post #53. So who ya gonna vote for if you're not going to throw your hat in the ring? If you're not going to run then it makes no sense for you to disparage the candidate that runs against Nagin. By all accounts, Nagin must go. He isn't suited for politics and couldn't translate his business success into the public spotlight.
Louisiana politics is screwed up anyway and the demographics have changed so significantly that it is impossible to predict how the mayor's race will turn out. Thus, I can give hypothetical matchups but it has no bearing only reality. Since you don't want to hear specifics, Wilson is a RINO. She's only nominally conservative and as much as she will deny it, she was part of the problem in the 1990s.Being white and republican is not automatic cure for the city's ills.
What you and the others who don't live don't understand is that the mess that occured on August 29 was not an accident. Forty years of corruption came to roost in the wake of Katrina. Nagin, who is inept not corrupt attempted to reverse the course, but the city's like a giant cruise ship, it can only turn around slowly.
As for who I would support, I have no idea if he would be interested but George Fowler would be an awesome candidate.
Pretty much all of them.
This was soooooooo easy to see coming.
So, let me check if I have this right, you do not believe that Nagin's "negligence cost lives", that this opinion of Sinkspur's is merely a "GOP talking point" and not something one should think about or consider seriously, but should dismiss out of hand as mere partisan politics?
First, I may or may not have been referring to that particular post of sinkspur's when I said he repeats GOP talking points. He does this on a myraid of subjects and for longtime poster who posts regularly, I see a lack of critical thinking in his posts. He is a knee jerk Bushbot, much the same way Hillary Clinton is a reflexive liberal.
Second, with respect to New Orleans, the majority of the blame for the situation belongs to the governor. The mayor and George the Profligate share in a part of the responsibility to a lesser extent. In an effort to deflect some of the blame and to counter the mainstream media's generally baseless assertions, the GOP developed it's own gameplan of blaming Nagin, even moreso than Blank-o. So yes, blaming Nagin is a GOP talking point.
I really don't want to be in the position of defending Nagin, as he has proven to be inept and a whiner. But I keep hearing how he is corrupt, a democrat, etc. The guy was a republican until he ran for mayor. He dontated to George W. Bush in 2000. He endorsed Bobby Jindal for governor in 2003. The political realities of New Orleans forced him to change party affiliation, so he could be elected. The currently dispersed poor black population of New Orleans did not support him. His election was a sign that Uptown was taking control of the city back from the Ninth Ward and the East.
Second, prior to Katrina, he was doing an excellent job of exterminating the stench left by Marc Morial. He was governing as a conservative. There was even one poster on this forum who suggested that Morial would have been better at handling this crisis than Nagin. That may qualify has the dumbest post of the year. Nagin hasn't done many things right, but I assure he will not be using this crisis to further enhance his bank account.
Third, there is a myth that pre-storm Nagin did not do enough to evacuate the population. Most of these people did not leave of their own volition. As I was evacauting New Orleans on Sunday, Nagin was on the radio telling people to get out. He purposefully did not open the Superdome until the last possible minute, so that people would evacuate. Yet, the dumbass people of New Orleans drove to the Superdome, expecting it to be open. If you have a car, why are you not evacuating? Most of the people who didn't leave, didn't want to leave. I am not sure how this is Nagin's fault. To get these people to evacuate would have required a change in mindset and culture that would take decades, not days.
The reason for the non-evacaution is the failure of liberalism. New Orleans is an anthema in the new south. While most, southern cities have embraced, growth, low taxes and have a pro-business mindset. New Orleans, thanks to Morial (and for that matter "Republican" Peggy Wilson), has gone backwards. Every year, there was a new tax, a new fee. Things were being done to drive business out, not bring business in. An entire population of people became dependent on government for everything. The more dependent the population became on government, the more they voted themselves a greater share of the public treasury. Katrina was a situation in which the government couldn't take care of these people. The poor black population had no idea what to do or where to go. And this is what cost lives. Nagin was simply in charge of a place where forty years of liberalism created a problem that could not have been solved by anyone with a category 5 hurricane barrelling at the city.
To answer your question in a long winded way, no. I do not believe Nagin's negligence costs lives, particularly in light of how wrong the death estimates have been. Liberalism and dependence on government killed these people. I suspect that even if everything had gone perfectly, Katrina would have killed 1,000 people in Louisiana, regardless of who the mayor was.
Hey Patti,
My knowledge of N.O. city politics is limited because I live on the "Best Bank" in Jefferson Parish, so I don't actually have to vote for the local yokels. (Thank goodness)
Peggy Wilson has been outspoken in opposing a lot of the business as usual, but was usually outvoted and probably wasn't very effective because of the environment. I really don't know enough about her particular positions to know if she would be a good mayor or not. I do know that she was a welcome opposing voice on many issues.
Nagin, I think was a good mayor/administrator. He was beginning to break some of the traditional alliances and did a lot to modernize the city's offices. I don't think he had enough power or time to really get deep into the chronic corruption. That said, he was completely unprepared and inept in the face of Katrina. There were absolutely no evacuation plans for New Orleans, and there had been plenty of warning. There is obviously no back-up funding available, no rebuilding plan, no temporary housing plan, no business plan, no relocation plan,etc, etc, etc.
I could go on and on, but I'll spare you. I'll be interested to see the results of the investigations into the quality of the construction of the floodwalls that failed. I think they're going to find that a lot of money ended up somewhere besides where it was supposed to.
O2
Ultimately then, the root of the failure lies with that legislative vote; but it doesn't absolve Nagin because he should have stepped into the breach and found transportation or died trying.
Most of the labor & enviornmental laws and regulations have pretty much been waived so the rebuilding can get underway as fastly and cheaply as possible. I'm pretty sure the zoning laws or restrictions will fall by the wayside too.
Louisiana politics is screwed up anyway
Nah...really?
Wilson is a RINO. She's only nominally conservative and as much as she will deny it, she was part of the problem in the 1990s. Being white and republican is not automatic cure for the city's ills.
Who cares if she's a RINO. I don't care if she supports gay marriage, abortion, etc. She's not running for President or a term in Congress. She's running to govern a city that may have permanently lost a third of its population forever. You can bet that, at the least she'll be much better than Nagin and be a stopgap so that the city can recover and regain some of its resemblence. At best, she'll easily return New Orleans to the powerful Southern metropolitan area that it was before Atlanta and Houston took over.
Nagin, who is inept not corrupt attempted to reverse the course, but the city's like a giant cruise ship, it can only turn around slowly.
Sorry, Nagin was corrupt. He didn't implement the city's own emergency plans and sat on TV cursing Bush and the feds. That goes far beyond ineptness.
If you're gonna mention sinkspur, at least ping him so he can reply again.
Post #69 - Sorry, my opinion on Nagin stands. He was way in over his head.
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