Posted on 10/24/2005 11:52:08 AM PDT by Willie Green
The blame, of course, rests on the cowardly automotive executives who caved to union extortion.
If it weren't for their gutlessness and lack of principled leadership the US automotive industry wouldn't be in the dire situation it's in today.
The government does bear blame as well: confiscatory corporate taxes, double taxation of shareholders, permitting the organized criminal gangs known as unions to have a legal existence, etc.
That's all in the past.
Now it's time to do the right thing by eliminating double taxation, halving the corporate tax rate, smashing the unions and allowing direct shareholder review of management.
Damn greedy workers...
Oh wait...you dont suppose they actually SPEND any of their money or invest it...do ya?
Wonder what those lost wages translate to in lost revenue to the economy?...lost tax revenues?...lost jobs in other sectors?...lost holiday sales?
Nah...the greedy bastards NEVER buy American products as a matter of habit....Nah...
You know...this is the only debate I ever get into round here that makes my stomach turn...
Do you care if they make TV's in America anymore?
nope..just want cheap TV's...
Do you care if they make cars in America anymore?
Nope..just want cheap cars
Do you care if they grow food in America?
Nope..we can just import the DDT riddin stuff...
What about the UNION workers that produce our weapons systems?
Screw em..
what about the UNION workers that build skyscrappers?
Screw em...hire illegals...
What about the UNION workers who actually voted for GW?
Screw em if they thought for one second that conservatives might actualy care about their standard of living...
You know...for claiming to be such a bunch of PRO-Americans....some of you are pretty quick to piss on your fellow Americans head and tell him to screw...
It's no different that the classism pushed by the demorats...only you look down on the people actually doing the work,...screw the greedy bastards you cry...they dont need health care...the Govt can pay for it...screw their retirement...go on SSI you say...screw their kids collage funds...let em work at Burger king if their are any jobs left...screw those people being able to afford a nice house...live in a project on the Govt dole...
screw their wages...THEY MAKE TOO MUCH (SOUND FAMILIAR????)
Classism rears it ugly frickin head...right here...in freedom city...
Actually, as someone who was forced to join a union in order to keep his job and as someone who has had to interact with unions many times to get work done, I can say that the union employee "actually doing the work" is a rarefied beast indeed.
Being in a union generally means only doing a fraction of your job, and even that grudgingly.
And here's a newsflash: Americans have always bought imported goods and always will. That's an inextricable part of living in freedom city.
America has never been an autarky, not even in your precious 1950s, and never will be.
I think that depends on which side is responding. :^)
The belief that the Bush administration is pursuing it's insidious agenda of one-world global socialism through wage arbitration, outsourcing and the suppression and sanitation of data, all to pull the wool over our eyes, is widely accepted by some here. These same folks,, who distrust anything our President does, also believe that these two authors, one an admitted communist and the other, a traitor to his country, are only concerned with the truth and have no agenda whatsoever.
The likes of Shaiken and Bonior (and Krugman), IMO, are enemies of our country who should be scorned, ridiculed and dismissed without any further consideration by Conservatives. They've certainly earned it. It's not surprising to see the Sac Bee or Mercury News publish their nonsense but it is another thing to see it here without the obligatory Barf Alert.
You wont have to worry about smashing unions...they are almost dead allready...what you should fear with great dread...is the illegals forming up in unions...which they are allready doing BTW...that's why the dems want them for a voting block so bad....to replace the Union workers like me who defect and Vote republican
So yeah...screw your fellow Americans...how very patriotic of you...
"Yeah, that was great for the low-skilled workers that Ford hired, but think about what it did to all those skilled buggy-whip craftsmen who were forced out of work."
Nah, they went to work for the Quakers.
So what do you want to do with the foreign plants that Ford and GM and Chrysler have? And, I guess you want all those Toyota and Nissan workers in Tennessee and Texas to be unemployed?
That's the union motto.
Boy did I ever learn the truth of that one in my two years as a member of SEIU Local 32B/32J.
I'll explain why your silly fulminations and your sad attacks on my patriotism ring hollow to me.
While a unionized employee, I worked at an apartment complex inhabited by extremely wealthy executives.
The district shop steward and the super (building manager) - both union - took kickbacks from contractors to allow them into the buildings to do interior work for the residents.
So I saw this amusing scenario many times: unionized super agrees with unionized contractor to allow the unionized contractor to take a job in his building. The unionized contractor then hires non-union illegals to come in and work outside of normal hours to finish the job underbudget and therefore provide a little extra off the books cash to finance the bribe.
The apartment owner, oblivious of these side-deals and shenanigans, pays top dollar union rates for hours that are never worked by union employees.
Unions are criminal scams, period.
Well bud..I'm a contruction electrician....I work my ass off...I have too...as we compete directly with non union contractors...we're ON TIME, UNDER BUDGET, AND INJURY FREE
You have no idea the amount of grief I get for my GW sticker on my ford F-250...but I keep it there anyways...
And yeah...Americans have allways bought imported products....and other Americans like me look at them like the traitors they are...driving honda's with little American flags...and Kerry/ Edwards bumber stickers still on the back.....
Dont be a liberal...buy a big American gas guzzler..
You want to bash Unions..start with the NEA and I'll be right by yer side...but bash blue collar people...and get a handful of monkey out of me every time...
Auto working wasnt allways the nice clean air conditioned job it is today (and that is done for the machinery more than the workers)...it was dirty hazardous and very gruelling work...I know...my granfather, father, and uncles all worked at auto plants here in Toledo...
autoplants that no longer exist and where gone long before globalization was even heard of...
All those plants would still exist, dummy.
They'd simply be free to compete as independent entities.
Look at what happened when AT&T was busted up!
The telecommunications industry flourished with competitive innovation and new technology!
It could be the same with automobiles if we busted-up the automotive cartel!
Not without the investment from Toyota and Nissan, which you said you wanted kept out of our markets.
Loss of buying power in the American market is the direct result of outsourcing and immigation as flawed policies.
The American economy was built upon de-facto protectionism. Before the Global Economy came into vogue among 25 year old economists, there were very few imported goods and they were all high end: Leica cameras, Omega watches, Mercedes Benz cars. There was a large and vibrant middle class and manufacturing jobs that paid well for persons with a high school education. The American market was the envy of the world. Now it is not. This is not going to work out; it hasn't to date, and it won't.
And you did your duty and reported all this right?
You told the building owner what was going on and that he was being ripped off?
You called the police and told them about the fruad perpetrated....
You complained to the local and international about these ILLEGAL dealings?..right?
You called immigration and had them round up the illegals?
You called the city inspection dept and had them come check for licenses?
You did your duty not only as a citizen..but as a Union worker to protect your Union brothers who where loosing wages...right...
Or did you do nothing thus becomming part of the problem you lament?
As funny as it is to see you call someone else a dummy, I'll interrupt the laughter to point out that you oppose non-union plants.
Those plants exist, of course, for the sole reason that unions have not rendered the labor market in those states unprofitable.
What is a consumer market? Is this the old Veblenism?
Sure. Toyota and Nissan will find a buyer for their facilities.
New capital can also be raised through IPOs.
No problemo.
This line brings to mind the war on poverty. Here we are $10 trillion dumped into poverty and the povertous are still there. Compare with those who were not povertous but who worked and made the same amount per year as the povertous received gratis from the Gummint. $10,000 to a povertous gives a continued povertous. $10,000 to a working stiff gives somebody who is climbing out and will leave the povertous behind.
Indeed I did.
You told the building owner what was going on and that he was being ripped off?
I contacted the building management company and let them know about it.
You called the police and told them about the fruad perpetrated....
Indeed I did. They pointed out to me that unless I actually witnessed the agreement being struck or money changing hands, it was meaningless. They seemed amused that I called it in.
You complained to the local and international about these ILLEGAL dealings?..right?
The local at that time was headed by the well-known mob associate Gus Bevona who is currently in prison. Complaining to Bevona and his cronies would have been useless. My assumption was that the reason why all this was going on was because he was getting a cut.
That assumption turned out to be correct.
The international of course, told me to go through my local.
You called immigration and had them round up the illegals?
LOL! I also called up Santa and told him what I wanted for Christmas.
You called the city inspection dept and had them come check for licenses?
No need. There was a licensed guy on the job at all times. All you need to do is display your license and tell the inspector that these other guys are working in a non-licensed capacity - "oh, they're here to help move the furniture, he's here to get the coffee, etc."
You did your duty not only as a citizen..but as a Union worker to protect your Union brothers who where loosing wages...right...
LOL! Brothers don't tell you that you have to join their club or you can't keep your job. The last adjective I would use to describe a union is "brotherly." Not that I would want to be brothers with guys who admired mobsters like Gus Bevona.
Or did you do nothing thus becomming part of the problem you lament?
I'd like to think that the information I passed on to the building management company was incorporated into the prosecutor's eventual case against Bevona and crew.
Agreed.
I also hated those Missouri voters that had "Sportsmen for Carnahan" stickers on their cars, even though Carnahan is/was a "gun grabber"...idiots.
How about Jews driving Benz's?
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