Posted on 10/21/2005 11:28:26 PM PDT by jmc1969
Britt Hume chimed in on this when talking to some state senator from Alabama. He had made similar claims that Katrina was a divine judgment and Hume pounced on him. His belief was that he recognized the existence of God, but didn't envision him being active in human affairs. His view was that God created a self-sustaining, self-renewing system, and that he was "hands-off" when it came to such things. Judgment, in his opinion was reserved for the end of life, not while we're alive.
I find that opinion absolutely non-scriptural.
Moyers is ignorant of Chrisitan beliefs. When Jesus was sent to walk among men, a new covenant was made.
The stereotypical "angry God" of the Old Testament is not in the New Testament. I am not up on the prophecy of Revalations.
Of course when the Second Coming comes, there could always be a "new" book and again there could be a different tone.
"I find that opinion absolutely non-scriptural>"
It is the pride of intellect.
"The stereotypical "angry God" of the Old Testament is not in the New Testament. I am not up on the prophecy of Revalations."
Be careful what you say here, though there is a new covenant Jesus did say I did not come to destroy the law of the prophets but to fulfill it. The whole old testament is not null and void only the things that Christ said were.
"Speaking of the wages of sin, the H5N1 virus is getting around pretty fair in south China. Suggest all keep an eye on the situation. Probability is pretty low, but could require pulling the kids out of school and not going to work for some weeks. Could kill 90% of infected people over forty five if it goes person to person and once the hospitals are overloaded. Maybe a third to a half of the younger ones. Maybe way less, way less. Bears watching."
And in other news, the same virus has reached Croatia. Surprise surprise, we (Europeans) came up with a cure. As the results show atm... it's 100% effective (of course there might be a couple deaths if it reached pandemic levels, but the chance of that happening is very low).
The percentages you were stating... are idiotic; no virus with 90% mortality rate could have any possibility of actually killing large amounts of people because it would self-contain itself. Plus... in addition to Tamiflu other EU countries are hastening the research of similar "cures". And yes, I know... cure is the wrong word for it :) Antiviral drug is more like it.
I presume that you found these percentages on some crazy christian/islamic/jewish page, and he probably called it divine retribution or some similar religious BS.
Becasue its easy to dismiss what you do not believe exists, and easy to embrace what you made up to fill that void!
What does the phrase "Jesus died for our sins" mean to you?
We are to "go forth and sin no more" (we are not absolved of following the laws laid down) but the debt has been paid.
There ARE those who celebrate their sins and even those within the "church" who attempt to deny that some activities (homosexual relations and abortion among them) are even sins at all.
God purposes ALL events for His divine will. We can either perceive those events as good or bad, but ultimately He has in His heart the best interests of those whom He has called.
Romans 8:28 - "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
He uses all events to either chastise us, or draw us closer to Him.
Moyers is Divine Retribution against the members of "New York's Union Theological Seminary" for inviting him as their keynote speaker and giving him some d@mn award.
There is no one on this planet that can claim that hurricane Kat happened without a warning. That should be the lesson of the whole event. A warning to escape was given and not everyone took heed to the warning.
Hard for me to say which did the most damage the flood waters that overflowed inadequate levies or the flood of lies spewed by humans about what happened during and after the fact.
After the great flood didn't God decide that he wasn't going to be in the punishment business anymore? In the New Testament, doesn't God offer hope even to sinners?
One more thing, Moyers once again sets up a false premise to argue against. He is very tiresome.
But we do know exactly why Job suffered. The beginning of the book tells us. God, Satan and any being present in those councils in heaven heard the exchanges between God and Satan. It was a test of Job's love. Job suffers and loves God and passes the test and never even knows there was one. Test, that is. That God would countenance Satan's tests and games and attempts to "prove" God wrong about Job's love is way more fascinating than the meaning of suffering in general. God cares whether Job loves Him, or not.
As for theodicy, how's about this one...what if God chooses to play in time, just like us? What if the future is partially, at least, open. For the sake of free will and love, which is what free will is all about, God chooses not to "know" all of the future. Stuff happens, He reacts, we react, we love each other. Or not.
Almost perfect, but not quite. How about simply:
"God uses all events to draw us closer to Him." That, my friend, is our life in a nutshell.
You're pretty close. There are definitely consequences to stupid behavior (I've suffered many such consequences). Whether they are God's punishment or not or whether God intervenes sometimes to alleviate the severity of the consequences (there have also been times I have been spared what was coming to me), who knows.
God is outside of time. There could not be prophecy without this simple fact. He knew you while you were still in the womb (Jeremiah).
"God is outside of time. There could not be prophecy without this simple fact. He knew you while you were still in the womb (Jeremiah)."
When were the souls created? Genesis does not tell us, yet it was that breath of life = soul that was placed in the newly created flesh man that made the flesh man alive.
Telling Jeremiah that he was known before he was born of flesh seems more like being told there is a history of the soul before the flesh body is conceived.
Seems more appropriate to say that God is TIME.
"What does the phrase "Jesus died for our sins" mean to you?"
He died as the passover lamb (without blemish) to absolve me of my sins once and for all and I am saved by His grace (a gift ny God,unmerited favor)but that grace is also not cheap and not to be taken lightly. We are justified by faith in Christ and then certified by our works because faith without works is dead.
Those who celebrate their sins are in darkness as Romans 1 says:
20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct. 29 They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do them but approve those who practice them.
And those practices bring about God's old testament type fury because it cheapens Christ's suffering and death on the cross. I believe it is highly insulting to God evident this by Paul's letter to the Romans. There are numerous examples of this in the new testament. The attitudes that God has towards sin is the same throughout the entire Bible and is consistent.
No, it's dangerous to claim that the original meaning applies directly to every situation that arises today and all should resist those holding that belief.
I read the following (dated 10-3-05 from a blog at STR.org) by Melinda Penner and thought it was excellent:
Presumption & Hubris
Since Hurrican Katrina, some Christians have speculated about whether it was God's judgment on New Orleans. Some have declared God's intent in the natural events. This goes beyond our authority to speak on God's behalf and declare His Word - because God hasn't declared His will in this event.
New Orelans and the Gulf Coast is full of sinners - so is the rest of the country and world. For goodness' sake, the French Quarter, arguably the locus of celebrating evil behavior, was spared the worst of the hurricane and flooding. If God wanted to use a hurricane to judge sinners, which He is capable of and has the moral authority to do, there are sure a lot of other places full of sinners worthy of judgment. Simply pointing out that sinners lived in the area isn't enough to conclude God's judgment.
Frankly, we're all worthy of judgment absent Jesus' forgiveness. God has commissioned us to speak for Him but only in what He has revealed. He's told us that humans are all sinners and in need of His grace to be reconciled to Him and be part of His Kingdom. That's true for every human being. However, imputing God's intentions to natural events is not part of that message because God has not revealed His will about that event. It's possible it was God's judgment, but we can never know without His specifically revealing His intentions.
A good ambassador accurately and boldly represents the views of the one who has sent him; but the ambassador also dare not go beyond the authority granted him.
It's simply presumptuous and hubris to speak for God when He hasn't spoken Himself. We're His messengers and must speak for Him only as we have been commissioned. To do otherwise, since we are His messengers, is to risk bringing dishonor to God. There are lots of ordinary ways and then spectacular ways that Christians impute God's will when He hasn't revealed it. We'd all do well to be cautious when representing God's will.
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