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To: nickcarraway
Aristotle was one of those creationists in a cheap toga who concluded that the abundant design in nature points to an intelligent cause even if that cause isn't visible.

Wrong, dead wrong. Read The Physics and see for yourself. (The "teeth" stuff is in Book II Part 8). He argues that Nature is purposive, not intelligent. Which is exactly the position of the evolutionist: the purpose of living things is to survive, be fruitful, and multiply.

Aristotle of course never wore a toga - that's truly a schoolboy howler. And he hardly ever went to a temple, which is one reason he was accused of impiety and exiled. He taught, you may recall, that the Gods had no need of our worship, being utterly outside the natural order.

11 posted on 10/20/2005 12:50:14 AM PDT by John Locke
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To: John Locke

exerpt from: http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/a/aristotl.htm

The development of potentiality to actuality is one of the most important aspects of Aristotle's philosophy. It was intended to solve the difficulties which earlier thinkers had raised with reference to the beginnings of existence and the relations of the one and many. The actual vs. potential state of things is explained in terms of the causes which act on things. There are four causes:
Material cause, or the elements out of which an object is created;
Efficient cause, or the means by which it is created;
Formal cause, or the expression of what it is;
Final cause, or the end for which it is.
Take, for example, a bronze statue. Its material cause is the bronze itself. Its efficient cause is the sculptor, insofar has he forces the bronze into shape. The formal cause is the idea of the completed statue. The final cause is the idea of the statue as it prompts the sculptor to act on the bronze. The final cause tends to be the same as the formal cause, and both of these can be subsumed by the efficient cause. Of the four, it is the formal and final which is the most important, and which most truly gives the explanation of an object. The final end (purpose, or teleology) of a thing is realized in the full perfection of the object itself, not in our conception of it. Final cause is thus internal to the nature of the object itself, and not something we subjectively impose on it.

God to Aristotle is the first of all substances, the necessary first source of movement who is himself unmoved. God is a being with everlasting life, and perfect blessedness, engaged in never-ending contemplation

Everything that I have read from Aristotle indicates that he believed in an Intelligent Designer, not random acts and mutations that evolution would indicate. The intelligent designer that he wrote about and believed in just happened to be God.


21 posted on 10/20/2005 5:31:22 AM PDT by NVD
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To: John Locke
He argues that Nature is purposive, not intelligent.

Didn't Aristotle also either argue, suggest or tacitly assume that the universe and it's order (including life) had existed eternally? If so not only was he not a "creationist" as the editorialist claims, but he wasn't an evolutionist either.

30 posted on 10/20/2005 8:37:42 AM PDT by Stultis
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To: John Locke
You wrote: "the purpose of living things is to survive, be fruitful, and multiply. "

A wonderful statement! Natural Teleology and Biblical reference at the same time!

But it's questionable whether you can say that in a public school.

63 posted on 10/20/2005 12:01:48 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Live and Let Live)
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To: John Locke
being utterly outside the natural order

You're confused with Plato? The gods are immanent in Aristotle. And they have nous. You know? Hard to forget.

140 posted on 10/21/2005 4:31:26 PM PDT by cornelis
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