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To: chilepepper
we should leave when it makes sense for us to leave, and not one day sooner. when we are sure that IRAN will not try to subvert a legally empowered government in Iraq, well THEN we can leave...

There's no need for Iran to subvert anything... we seem to have allowed a very Iran-friendly constitution to be voted on. It made sense to have given them a constitution that made sense for our purposes last year, had them vote on it, and then left.

Unfortunately, the path we've chosen to take leaves us there indefinitely..

18 posted on 10/17/2005 5:59:11 PM PDT by podkane
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To: podkane

"we seem to have allowed a very Iran-friendly constitution to be voted on"

That's an idiotic statement. There is nothing "Iran-friendly" in the Constitution at all, unless you mean human rights, federalism, a parliament elected by the people, independent judiciary, due process of law, and rule of law are "Iran-friendly".

Show me the specific provisions that you are talking about.

"It made sense to have given them a constitution that made sense for our purposes last year, had them vote on it, and then left."

The would have been a recipe for disaster, as the insurgency one year ago was strong in sunni regions - now it is in major retreat. Staying the course has meant the difference between an Iraq as a failed state and a democratic Iraq. Thanks to the vote Saturday, its path to democracy is clearer and surer. The Constitution of last year was provisional, and it was clear that the Iraqis rejected a process whereby they would have to vote on an "American" Constitution. Chalk it up to Arab or Iraqi pride, but the mutual interests dictated the exact process we went through:
1) Provisional Government
2) National Assembly to write the permanent Constitution
3) Permanent Constitution written and voted on.

Remarkably, all these things happened on the schedule G W Bush said it would in May 2004. All of it.
The Naywayers were wrong and Bush was right.

"Unfortunately, the path we've chosen to take leaves us there indefinitely.."

This is simply untrue. We can and will leave if and when the Iraqi Government no longer needs us and wants us to help with security. As it is today, the Iraqis have 200,000 troops trained and working everyday. What they lack is the heavy armor and firepower of our tanks and F-15s.
We provide a depth of force that makes the terrorists sure to lose. Within 2-3 years, our presence will be no longer needed. However, we are not really needed in Japan either, but managed to stay for 60 years. USA and Iraq may find it in our mutual interest to have a continued presence there, to make sure democratic Iraq is safe from threats, foreign and domestic.


23 posted on 10/17/2005 6:31:51 PM PDT by WOSG (http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com/)
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