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God and global warming
St. Petersburg Times ^ | September 15, 2005

Posted on 10/15/2005 3:16:30 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Science and religion may differ on how we got here, but increasingly there is little disagreement on where we are headed if we don't begin to address the causes of climate change. Scientists have long warned of the dangers of global warming attributed to our profligate use of fossil fuels. Now, one of the nation's most influential religious groups is delivering the same message, if based on an alternative standard of proof.

"I had a conversion experience on the climate issue not unlike my conversion to Christ," Richard Cizik, vice president for governmental affairs at the National Association of Evangelicals, told the environmental magazine Grist. "I was at a conference in Oxford where Sir John Houghton, an evangelical scientist, was presenting evidence of shrinking ice caps, temperatures tracked for millennia through ice-core data, increasing hurricane intensity, drought patterns, and so on. I realized all at once, with sudden awe, that climate change is a phenomenon of truly biblical proportions."

The 30-million-member association, which Cizik says is one of the strongest voices in the Republican Party, isn't just talking about global warming. It is taking action. Calling the doctrine "creation care," the association is conducting a scripture-based campaign to convince its members that they are "commissioned by God the Almighty to be stewards of the earth."

Cizik doesn't rule out formal collaboration with secular environmental groups such as the Sierra Club. And the association is preparing a position paper on global warming policy.

For his part, Cizik is practicing what he preaches. "We sold our RV, which got about five miles per gallon, and bought a Prius, which gets about 10 times that," he told Grist. "I oughta get a commission from Toyota for the number of people I've converted to the Prius."

Soon, there will be no haven for those who continue to ignore the environmental challenges ahead.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: climatechange; communism; environment; environmentalism; envirowhackos; globalwarming; greens; newage; religion; religiousleft; socialism; watermelons
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To: NicknamedBob
You have a interesting idea, but the attrition rate, wear and tear from the growing heat, on such a huge array of reflectors would be prohibitive over time. Not to mention the delicate balance between too much heat, intensifying heat at that, and not enough.

Besides, it's much more fun to say it's Bush's fault, than come to terms with the loss of income, clout, and power, resulting from an admission that global warming might not be man made. Just think of what a horror it would be for humanists to acknowledge that the Bible is correct on the future intensity of the sun's power, and that there might actually be a God who tells us the ending from the begining.

Rather than reflectors the earth may end up needing a large pair of sun glasses if the sun is going red giant. That's what I'd vote for, a large pair of pink sunglasses.

There is a creation scientist in Grandbury, Texas that maintains the earth use to have just such a type of loose lens protecting it from the suns harmful rays. He is referring to back in Noah's time before the flood when it had yet to ever rain on the earth and people lived to 900+ years.

He claims that this "firmament" may have been recreated in the lab by spinning hydrogen atoms in a centrifuge. It's a pinkish lens but getting it to hold together wouldn't be an easy matter. Besides, if the sun is going red giant the heat will eventually become too hot for any type of reflector or lens. Christians don't worry about it because they have been told beforehand that neither the earth, nor man, will need the sun, or an orbit around it, when Christ returns.

61 posted on 10/16/2005 7:56:07 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie

You are correct in noting that there would be attrition, but this can be resolved by simply continuing the program under the assumption that losses would occur.

We could even find ourselves in the position of the Dutch, or those in New Orleans, having to continually build up the barriers to prevent our destruction. But there is a difference. They could leave -- we can't, unless we simply move outward to the next planet.

I'm not ready to abandon Earth quite yet.

Sunglasses? -- Okay, but that would be an even larger undertaking than mirrors or solar cells. There are only two locations where items can be placed to interrupt light from the Sun to Earth. One is an orbit inferior to Earth, such as occupied by Venus. Since objects, or gas-clouds, would orbit at a different speed than we do, we would have to fill that orbit with gas in order to protect Earth. It would take a lot of material, more than our planet alone could provide. I'm not saying it's impossible, just difficult.

Perhaps it's not the right way to go. I like to accomplish more than one goal at a time. Solar cells do that. Even mirrors could be combined with solar cells to do double duty.


The other location is a balance point between the gravitational attraction of the Earth, and the Sun. Called a LaGrange point, it is moderately unstable, but could be maintained as a place to develop energy, and shade Earth at the same time.

Such a structure would have to be enormous to be even minimally effective, but it could be even less than paper-thin. Calculations can easily be done to determine how much material is required. Spread thin, it is not a prohibitive amount. Much of it could come from the Moon. Robot factories could launch material from the Moon without using rocket fuel. They would do it with electromagnetic catapults. (First you have to get to the Moon, of course.)

I also like mirrors for terraforming places for colonization, such as Mars. Mars needs to be made warmer, and mirrors could easily help to accomplish that.

I enjoy the vision provided by Biblical interpretations, but I do not believe that the Bible and Science are in conflict in these matters.

Eventually, it is true that the Earth will be destroyed. By that time, we will be gone, or very, very different. If we continue with our scientific pursuits, modifying the solar system, or other star systems, may not seem so outlandish.

And trust me, we won't have to leave a forwarding address in order for Christ to find us.


62 posted on 10/16/2005 8:35:33 AM PDT by NicknamedBob (George asked me for the best poet... I looked and looked ... I couldn't find anyone better than me.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Just great. Are we now going to see environMENTALism, courtesy of the "religious right?"


63 posted on 10/16/2005 2:01:58 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Hey, Cindy Sheehan, get over yourself, already!)
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To: sumocide
Genesis 2:15 specifically calls us "to watch over and care for" the bounty of the earth and its creatures. Scripture not only affirms this role, but warns that the earth is not ours to abuse, own, or dominate. The Bible clearly says in Revelation 11:18 that "God will destroy those who destroy the earth."

From the KJV Bible (currently in my lap as I type this):

Genesis 2:15: And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Revelation 11:18: And the nations were angry, and thy [The Lord's] wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Just typing the verses that these religious environMENTALists mentioned. Gen. 2:15 seems to concern the garden of Eden. Rev. 11:18 does mention destroying the destroyers of the earth; whether these destroyers are big corporations and carbon-belching industries, I have no idea...

64 posted on 10/16/2005 2:11:46 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (Hey, Cindy Sheehan, get over yourself, already!)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks; Cincinatus' Wife; sumocide

God -- "Adam, you're looking a little strange. Has something happened?"

Adam -- wiping off sweat and dust, and smiling, "Yes, Lord, something important has happened. You remember that one tree You told me about? That I should never eat of it?"

God -- "Yes, of course I remember."

Adam -- "Well, me and Elephant and the boys got to talking about what You had said, and we decided that it was too dangerous to have around, so we dug it up and threw it over the wall!"

God -- "Oh, I see. Well, I'll see you around, I suppose ..."


The End.


65 posted on 10/16/2005 5:08:39 PM PDT by NicknamedBob (George asked me for the best poet... I looked and looked ... I couldn't find anyone better than me.)
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To: NicknamedBob

I think time is the biggest enemy of any best laid plans.


66 posted on 10/17/2005 7:23:00 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: MissAmericanPie
Most people think that time is limited. It isn't.

We picture time as an hourglass. That's wrong. Our time may be limited, even as a species, but time itself goes on endlessly.

What shall we accomplish? What goal do we set? Most of us get by with just getting by, but some few think we have a noble purpose. I can't think that it is to watch mutely, like the dinosaurs, as disaster arrives, whether as a comet or asteroid, or as a gradual but inexorable climb in temperature.

I believe that Science and Religion are two legs we can use to investigate the Universe, if we choose to cooperate in that venture and adventure. Or we can just keep kicking each other.

The time will come, when we know more about such things.

The time will come, when the lion lies down with the lamb.

The time will come, and it will continue to come, for all the ages of Man, until the Earth itself is worn away, and still the time will come. It does not end.

We will end. We will end nobly, or we will end in disgrace, the tattered remnants of a once mighty species squabbling over the last crusts of bread. But time is not our enemy.

We are our enemy. Greed and ignorance are the cancers of society, but we do not have to succumb to these illnesses.

We can dust ourselves off, and proceed to a glorious destiny of exploration, understanding, and appreciation for the wonders of the Universe.

Time will tell.



Time Is A River

Time is a river. We watch it go by,
A current event that our memories try.
But upstream it branches, again and again,
And which is the true course is hard to know then.

And downstream the eddies will hold you a tad,
Until you’ve forgotten the purpose you had.
We all end up going along with the flow,
Just checking out where all that stuff has to go.

It’s turbid, this water, with sediment laced,
It carries the troubles and woes it has faced.
The end of its worries, released to the sea,
In final surrender, just like you and me.

So meantime we tarry, and ponder the way,
That all of these tears have arrived here today,
The clouds that have cried them no longer are seen,
The sadness surrendered, just to make the grass green.

But laughter awakens the music and song,
And even the river joins in chuckling along.
The birds pipe a melody, tender and sweet,
The wind plays the brushes, emphasizing each tweet.

And lifting our spirits, like kites on a string,
As we loll by this river, which was born in the Spring.
This river may carry all of us to our fate,
But I’m going somewhere before it’s too late.

I’ll float with the clouds, leave behind the kite’s string,
Mosey on up to Heaven, see what that journey brings.
I won’t ask no questions, I’ll just look around,
And when I return, I won’t say what I found.

You all have to answer the questions you need,
For the form of your blossom is the shape of your seed.
And the thing that you’ll find will depend where you look,
I found lots of answers over there in that brook.

NicnamedBob . . . . . . . . . . . . April 11, 2005

67 posted on 10/17/2005 8:17:26 AM PDT by NicknamedBob (George asked me for the best poet... I looked and looked ... I couldn't find anyone better than me.)
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