Posted on 10/14/2005 4:44:24 PM PDT by blam
Well, right. But during the active period of the Roman Empire, new legions would be sent out to occupy the provinces, even if retirees went native. Rome eventually stopped manning the frontiers, resulting in barbarians living on the ruins, as opposed to a continuation of Roman culture.
However, iirc, it's been demonstrated that higher economic development, long-term, in Europe and the Near East is very closely correlated with areas that were at one time Roman-occupied.
There are a number of theories concerning the cause, but the evidence suggests Krakatoa blew up about 538. This is the time it separated the island of Sumatra from the island of Java. Before that they had been a single island.
The Eastern Mediterranean, Southern Italy and Eastern Mediterranean were not much affected. China, on the other hand, was wiped out for 300+ years, which sounds pretty bad but was nothing compared to the 1000+ years for most of Western Europe.
An alternative theory is that a comet did the job.
Now, why did the people die? Well, even where they survived, the climate changed such that the dry high pressure zones moved in all around the Mediterranean. This fostered the growth of grass to the detriment of other plants, particular normal agricultural crops. Rats and mice do well in prairie. Black Plague is carried by rats and mice. The result was known as the Plague of Justinian.
Where people didn't survive well, more of them died and no record was made. Civilization ceased to be a factor in much of the West.
Among other things these guys had a tradition of a king with a round circle and an unfaithful queen.
So you're saying that the political situation in Rome was not the cause of the economic and population decline (and other disruptions), but simply coincided in time with the climate change that was the actual cause?
I gotta look through my bookcase at home, cause I think I have a book on this subject. It talks about the furthest outposts absorbed into the local society. You could very well be right regarding the Ossetians. The book has to do with Hadrian's Wall...the quest begins. :)
Since the Dark Ages happened many decades AFTER the German takeover, they are not connected.
A Fimbulwinter is not exactly a climate change ~ it's just an adverse winter weather pattern that lasts beyond one season. Things always return to normal!
Of course, that one was bad enough that everything got eaten and then they burned everything down to keep warm. When the Bretons arrived in France from Great Brittain in the 7th Century they observed that there were no people and few animals. In fact, it is claimed that the great magician Merlin had to replant all the grapevines in Beaujolais! The Carvajal clan penetrated all the way to the Jura mountains without encountering any other people. Obviously the invading barbarians had been destroyed by this disaster. In due course Ireland became the center of Christian thought, action and missionary work for Western Europe.
Very interesting. This is not an approach I've encountered before, but it's certainly not something I'll dismiss out of hand.
I appreciate your time!
Oh, can you recommend a book on the subject that I might find in my library?
PBS had a program on it. They replay it from time to time.
Thanks.
bttt
I get this feeling that Roman Brittain was a lot more like Appalachia than Beverly Hills eh!
HEY NOW!! I resemble that remark. 8^)
Did you ever drive though the mountains when they set fire to an outhouse? That smoke is heavy and lies low in every valley.
And Chariots up on granite blocks?
Hey, Romans invented concrete. Maybe the chariots were up on protypical "concrete blocks".
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That's pretty much my take on it as well. There were probably isolated islands of 'romans' though in various of the outer portions of the empire for quite a while after Rome itself departed for more hospitable climes.
Have any of the GGG'ers read any of the "Camolaud Chronicles" books? For those not familiar, it's a really long extended telling of the story of King Arthur. However the story is told as imagined by the author how it could have happened without 'magic' or supernatural events. I think there are six books in the series, that begins with Arthur's Grandfather Britanicus, a roman general who retired to Britain. Arthur isn't even born until the third book! It's a fascinating read. The author did a lot of research into the period. (about 500AD IIRC)
The way he explains how Excalibur was drawn from the "Lady of the Lake" is pretty cool.
Just FYI, the Britons didn't speak Gaelic or any Godelic language - that was the branch of the Celtic language family tree spoken in Ireland and the Isle of Man (and later on, highland Scotland.) The Britons' branch of Celtic was called Brythonic, and today includes what we know as Welsh, Cornish and Breton.
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