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To: SupplySider; stevestras

And a flat tax of any sort is a wonderful idea and would leave us with:

a) payroll/withholding taxes,

b) thousands and thousands of pages of tax code which no one understands and which can be easily modified,

c) no manner in which to help US companies in being more competetive with exports (no border-adjustability of taxes),

d) consumer prices artificially increased due to cascading embedded tax costs,

e) the massive evasion - and lost tax revenue - we now have with the illegal economy (which is not even considered evasion by the SQL crowd since it can't be addressed as under the FairTax),

f) huge wastage of taxpayer "individual capital" in complying with tax laws and filling out tax forms when such time could be better spent playing tiddlywinks or mowing the lawn,

g) political control of the publics financial decisions to a large part by tinketing with the tax laws ... and then changing them again when it is seen they do not work as advertised,

h) no means at all for enticing home-grown capital that has fled the country due to taxation to return,

i) no manner of attracting foreign capital into the US to help boost our economy and create jobs,

j) and no doubt others which I lack the mental energy to pursue.

Perhaps others would like to expand the list.


89 posted on 10/13/2005 8:27:43 AM PDT by pigdog
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To: pigdog

I have never investigated the flat tax because of my interest in the NRST. All I know is the few sketches of information I picked up here, there, and yonder. My opinion is that the appeal of it is that you only report a small amount of information when you file, the postcard thing, and the rate is fixed and is the same for everyone.

However, it seems to me that the figuring of the tax you owe, the number you put on the postcard, involves pretty much all the machinations of taking deductions, etc., that are in the present system. It is just reported on a simpler form and the final calculation is fixed rather than determined by a tax table.

Is that correct?


91 posted on 10/13/2005 8:45:09 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: pigdog
a) payroll/withholding taxes
It would be nice not to have a separate payroll tax, but there is a theoretical argument in favor of it. Social Security was never meant to be a welfare program funded from general revenues. I agree withholding taxes is pernicious.

b) thousands and thousands of pages of tax code which no one understands and which can be easily modified
With a flat tax with one exemption for lower incomes and no deductions, almost all of those pages would disappear.

c) no manner in which to help US companies in being more competetive with exports (no border-adjustability of taxes),
Who needs the tax code to subsidize exports? just hand out corporate welfare checks, as we do now, if that's what we want.

d) consumer prices artificially increased due to cascading embedded tax costs,
All the hidden costs of compliance such as tax sheltering and uneconomic tax-related business decisions would go with a flat tax.

e) the massive evasion - and lost tax revenue - we now have with the illegal economy (which is not even considered evasion by the SQL crowd since it can't be addressed as under the FairTax
That's an advantage of the NRST, that it would capture a lot of drug and other crime money

f) huge wastage of taxpayer "individual capital" in complying with tax laws and filling out tax forms when such time could be better spent playing tiddlywinks or mowing the lawn,
With a flat tax you just fill out a postcard (if your family makes more than $48,000 a year, if not, you do nothing)

g) political control of the publics financial decisions to a large part by tinketing with the tax laws ... and then changing them again when it is seen they do not work as advertised,
Put in a super majority requirement for raising the flat rate, and eliminate all deductions, and you've just dropped a nuke on K Street.

h) no means at all for enticing home-grown capital that has fled the country due to taxation to return,
When Russia instituted a flat tax, massive amounts of hidden capital suddenly reappeared. With a low, fair, simple, rate, it usually makes more economic sense to pay than avoid.

i) no manner of attracting foreign capital into the US to help boost our economy and create jobs,
A growing economy is what really attracts foreign investment. Hong Kong, a tiny island with no natural resources, has a flat tax and big foreign investment

I can add another to your list: a big red "FEDERAL TAX 25%" at the bottom of every receipt would be a huge pressure to lower the rate and lower federal spending.

Thanks for your list. I think there are many advantages to a NRST. However, I think it is feasible to pass a super-majority requirement for raising a flat tax rate, but I don't see a constitutional convention to eliminate the sixteenth amendment ever happening. Incumbents and lobbyists would fight it to the death.

95 posted on 10/13/2005 10:01:48 AM PDT by SupplySider
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To: pigdog

And a flat tax of any sort is a wonderful idea and would leave us with:

a) payroll/withholding taxes,

On the personal side, the Flat Tax is just a wage tax anyway. It wouldn't matter if it's split into FICA and general revenue.


b) thousands and thousands of pages of tax code which no one understands and which can be easily modified,

There wouldn't be "thousands and thousands of pages of tax code." The Flat Tax is as simple as:

(WAGES - STANDARD DEDUCTION) x TAX RATE = TAX OWED

Even you could handle that. It's much easier than adding up all the sales taxes on your receipts to figure out how much you've paid the government.


c) no manner in which to help US companies in being more competetive with exports (no border-adjustability of taxes),

Border adjustably is pointless. The countries that have moved to a Flat Tax have seen their economies thrive, all without border adjust ability.


d) consumer prices artificially increased due to cascading embedded tax costs,

First it was embedded taxes. Then it was embedded tax costs. Now it's cascading embedded tax costs. Next it will be double super secret cascading embedded tax costs. You never have been able to comprehend the whole "tax incidence" idea, have you?


e) the massive evasion - and lost tax revenue - we now have with the illegal economy (which is not even considered evasion by the SQL crowd since it can't be addressed as under the FairTax),

The illegal economy would thrive with the FairTax. Organized crime, in particular, would love it (besides being able to sell black market goods, there would be no need for money laundering).


f) huge wastage of taxpayer "individual capital" in complying with tax laws and filling out tax forms when such time could be better spent playing tiddlywinks or mowing the lawn,

It would take, literally, less than 5 minutes to determine your taxes (it might take a little longer for you).


g) political control of the publics financial decisions to a large part by tinketing with the tax laws ... and then changing them again when it is seen they do not work as advertised,

The Flat Tax is no more susceptible to tinkering than the FairTax - it might be less so.


h) no means at all for enticing home-grown capital that has fled the country due to taxation to return,

Now you are really showing your ignorance. Foreign earnings are not taxed under the Flat Tax. Foreign earnings could be repatriated without penalty.


i) no manner of attracting foreign capital into the US to help boost our economy and create jobs,

Except a booming economy.


j) and no doubt others which I lack the mental energy to pursue.

I don't think energy is your problem, it's capacity.

100 posted on 10/13/2005 11:03:21 AM PDT by Your Nightmare
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