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To: cornelis; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; xzins; marron
In the Republic the Beyond is beyond being, bb.

Of course you are right, cornelis: Plato’s “Beyond” is beyond Being itself. And this is how we know it: Plato’s “Beyond” is beyond human conceptualization. And Being is a concept.

I think the “beyondness” of God may be what St. Anselm of Canterbury had in mind when he said: “O Lord, you are not only that than which a greater cannot be conceived, but you are also greater than what can be conceived.”

And yet Plato as well as Anselm both “felt” the drawing of the divine.

Classical Greek metaphysics approaches “theology”— I understand this word is of Platonic coinage — via nous, i.e., via the mind, intellect. And perhaps that’s why “the god” was not much described by the likes of Plato. For a god of Spirit cannot really be wholly contacted or engaged by means of nous. It seems the great Greeks could recognize intelligence when they saw it, but still did not recognize that intelligence is a quality of personhood. And personhood is the privilege of a soul, which is “a spiritual entity.”

The Israelites had an “unknown god” too. Until Abraham, and the Bush that Burned at Mount Sinai. And Christianity made the “unknown god” perfectly explicit and Personal with the incarnation of the Logos, the Son of God, in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

I think the Greeks took metaphysical problems just as far as they could rationally go. But it took Christian theology to fulfill their great insights, and to carry them further, into the realm of the soul, and the mediating Spirit that puts the human soul in direct relation with God Who is Person.

Thank you so much for your astute observations, cornelis.

583 posted on 10/18/2005 5:26:22 PM PDT by betty boop (Nature loves to hide. -- Heraclitus)
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To: betty boop
[ Classical Greek metaphysics approaches “theology”— I understand this word is of Platonic coinage — via nous, i.e., via the mind, intellect. And perhaps that’s why “the god” was not much described by the likes of Plato. For a god of Spirit cannot really be wholly contacted or engaged by means of nous. It seems the great Greeks could recognize intelligence when they saw it, but still did not recognize that intelligence is a quality of personhood. And personhood is the privilege of a soul, which is “a spiritual entity.” ]

My dear Ms. Boop;
Quite a deep statement I would say.. I love it when reams can be transcribed with few words.. Especially when it is simple to understand in tone, yet not simplistic in demeanor.. Only one word comes to mind about this statement, beautiful.. Says more about you than it does about what was said....... almost..

Thanks.. Pipe..

584 posted on 10/18/2005 6:19:02 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your excellent essay-post!

I think the Greeks took metaphysical problems just as far as they could rationally go. But it took Christian theology to fulfill their great insights, and to carry them further, into the realm of the soul, and the mediating Spirit that puts the human soul in direct relation with God Who is Person.

So very true. I am convinced that Plato and Aristotle and his student Alexander the Great were all part of the plan to prepare the world (especially the Gentiles) for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Alexander normalized the Greek language so people could actually communicate much better. And the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle persisted, stirring interest in spiritual matters among the civilized people - which the Gospel of Christ then answered.

587 posted on 10/18/2005 9:25:15 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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