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To: sinkspur
Well well well. I've actually attracted the mighty sinkspur's attention. Who'da thunk it?

Why didn't you speak to your own mother about converting? Or did you not feel up to the task?

It's simple to do, really. Just take your mother to church, to experience the Eucharist.

It's almost amuzing that you assume I didn't talk to my mother about it. The fact is I did, and I took her to church with me a lot. The point is I would have liked the tiniest bit of support from "my" church and received none. I guess I never really accepted the fact that the "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church" isn't missionary and never tries to convert anyone (that's something the "rednecks" do based on "Biblical literalism"). Nope, turns out the Catholic Church converted people up until Ireland and since then has relied on sexual reproduction among the "right people" (Poles, Irish, Latins, Hispanics) to keep going.

Way to go for your first groundless and ignorant assumption.

Speaking of the Eucharist, I notice you didn't, in your post. Did the sacraments mean anything to you while you were Catholic? I notice you place a great stock in the literal interpretation of Scripture, but you say nothing about the very literal signs of God's presence in our lives, the seven sacraments.

You say nothing about Jesus' real presence in the Eucharist, yet, for some reason, you are in a huff that Jonah may not be accepted as a real person.

Groundless assumption number two. I was baptized by intinction (contrary to everything I had been taught by my culture), was confirmed, and took communion as often as I could. I even made a special point to take the cup because I was from a teetotalling tradition and I wanted to make my faith in the transubstantiation of the wine manifest to the world (but I gave it up when I learned that communion via the cup is "left wing").

And it just so happens that I did believe in the Real Presence. In fact, because of my own literalistic heritage it was no problem at all. But I never understood why one literalism had to drive out another. Exactly how does Jonah threaten your Church again?

Furthermore, may I add that you have no idea whatsoever of what I went through for six years trying my best not only to understand but to submit to your darling bishops. I spent a great deal of time reading articles in the Catholic Encyclopaedia in a local university library to learn things I wasn't taught in catechumenate class. The only things I absolutely refused to submit on were the literal truth of the Bible and Israel, because on those two issues my conscience would simply not allow me to compromise.

You have no idea what it was like being at a major secular university and turning to "my" church for help against all the higher criticism and being told instead to get out (and on a holy day at that, which mean I had to go immediately to church after being told this). You have no idea how bad and wicked I was made to feel because I "wasn't a real Catholic" because my conscience would not allow me to jettison Genesis and Jonah while hypocritically adding new literalisms.

You are quite the hypocrite, you know that?

So Mr. Sinkspur, was Juan Diego an evolutionist like you, or is silly irrational supernaturalism more palatable on the part of quaint little brown people? If I painted myself and adopted a funny accent would you be making these ignorant comments about me?

You, sir, are an intolerable know-it-all blowhard.

62 posted on 10/07/2005 10:28:31 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo-ya`avdukh yo'vedu!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I'm very sorry to confront you like this, but if you took the sort of angry, aggressive tone with the Fathers and the Bishops that you are taking here, I'm not surprised they told you to get out.


68 posted on 10/07/2005 10:34:32 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Sheep are very intelligent. They know they need the Shepherd.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
You have no idea what it was like being at a major secular university and turning to "my" church for help against all the higher criticism and being told instead to get out (and on a holy day at that, which mean I had to go immediately to church after being told this). You have no idea how bad and wicked I was made to feel because I "wasn't a real Catholic" because my conscience would not allow me to jettison Genesis and Jonah while hypocritically adding new literalisms

Somebody actually told you that you weren't a Catholic because you believed in a literal interpretation of Scripture? I find that very hard to believe, but, if it did happen, it shouldn't have. You are free to believe in a literal interpretation of Scripture if you wish. It is not an article of Faith, one way or the other.

So Mr. Sinkspur, was Juan Diego an evolutionist like you, or is silly irrational supernaturalism more palatable on the part of quaint little brown people? If I painted myself and adopted a funny accent would you be making these ignorant comments about me?

You should get some help. You are cheesed off for no good reason, and it has caused you to speak and think irrationally.

You were never required, as a matter of faith, to give up your belief in a literal interpretation of Scripture.

Where Israel fits into this whole deal is beyond my understanding.

74 posted on 10/07/2005 10:46:56 AM PDT by sinkspur (Is Michael Graham still looking for a job?)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
You have no idea what it was like being at a major secular university and turning to "my" church for help against all the higher criticism and being told instead to get out (and on a holy day at that, which mean I had to go immediately to church after being told this). You have no idea how bad and wicked I was made to feel because I "wasn't a real Catholic" because my conscience would not allow me to jettison Genesis and Jonah while hypocritically adding new literalisms.

*************

I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience. Priests are human, and some are better than others for the task. Even the best of them can make mistakes.

103 posted on 10/07/2005 11:18:35 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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