You mean, sort of like claiming over and over that scientists are persecuting IDers, because they won't let them teach ID in high school?
Automatically writing yourself into that history as being on the side of the good is worse. The 20th century saw the murder of between 50 and 100 million people by secular governments. Governments that swore to protect their people from the evils of religion, among other things. Governments that outlawed religion. Personally I am more frightened by those that hate religion than the religious.
The church genocided Anabaptists, Muslims, Gnostics, Jews, Witches, and Albigensians--and that's without the help of modern methods of accounting, record-keeping, transportation and warfare. There is nothing that was done in the prison camps of Germany that outshone the Inquisition for cruel and ingenious ideas for murdering your theological opponents as slowly, painfully, and degradingly as possible.
As far as your demands for proof. That is funny you offer none whatsover for you views,
Science doesn't operate on proof. Yet proof is what is required if you want to proffer an ID claim that you can see a mysterious hand at work, absent any positive forensic evidence whatsoever.
you simply defame religious people in the name of an incomplete and highly edited historical perspective.
What religeous people did I defame? The catholics? The catholics officially condone Darwinian evolutionary theory as of 1996. Calling a schism of christianity that believes things that are preposterous, in the light of contemporary science, cranks--is the truth. And truth is an adequate defense against charges of slander. I have defamed no major religeous group as a whole, and you owe me an apology, or a counterdemonstration of my claim of innocence.
Than you wave your arm and demand the names of ten scientists that have published serious articles with numerous qualifiers supplied by you.
Numerous qualifiers? How numerous, exactly? You mean, refereed publication? Golly, what a stern taskmaster I am.
You haven't done it and neither will I.
I cite every scientist that has ever published a refereed paper in the journal of micro-biology.
Tell you what. Cite me 5, other then Behe, Hoyle, and, giving you the benefit of the doubt, Dembski,-- actual research scientists who've published a popular book on the subject, enumerating the scientific data that supports ID, and explaining why it does.
In any case your entire response was just littered with bad prose lurid imagery of people being burned at the stake, etc. and isn't worthy of a line by line refutation
We're fairly accustomed to stealth creationists who haughtily declare themselves the winners in a battle they couldn't locate on a map if they tried.
Creationist-Bozos-on-parade placemarker.
"You mean, sort of like claiming over and over that scientists are persecuting IDers, because they won't let them teach ID in high school?"
I never made that specific charge, you must have your rants mixed up.
"The church genocided Anabaptists, Muslims, Gnostics, Jews, Witches, and Albigensians--and that's without the help of modern methods of accounting, record-keeping, transportation and warfare. There is nothing that was done in the prison camps of Germany that outshone the Inquisition for cruel and ingenious ideas for murdering your theological opponents as slowly, painfully, and degradingly as possible."
My you do go on. Genocided them all eh. Slowly, painfully, and degradingly as possible. You're really into the very lurid details of their death. Do you read about their actual deaths a lot, Dr Kevorkian? Seems you want to put there death on a higher plane than the mere murdering of millions during the 20th century by governments that were supposedly an improvement on the homicidal, genocidal religious governments of the past. Your use of the word Genocide in your favorite historical tragedy belies your attempt to explain away or ignore the vastly larger numbers of people killed in the 20th century, by non-religious governments. The larger numbers comes from the obvious fact of larger populations and more efficient killing machines. Anyway, you pre-occupation with only one slice of historical injustice tells the whole story. In your mind it is only the religious that we need to fear. Well, not so, my dear Doctor Jack. Not so.
"Science doesn't operate on proof. Yet proof is what is required if you want to proffer an ID claim that you can see a mysterious hand at work, absent any positive forensic evidence whatsoever"
You are not the determinator of what is required. You do not make the rules. The above statement is quite strange really, science doesn't prove, those that challenge it must prove. Right, sure...Great stuff!
"you simply defame religious people in the name of an incomplete and highly edited historical perspective"
Yes, that is what you do, you defame them by bringing into an argument in the 21st century, the behavior of religious people hundreds of years ago, you bring it into every discussion. Into every comment and reply near as I can tell. Yet you boldly claim you do not and laughingly demand an apology. It is you that needs to appologize. For butchering the subject the way you do.
As for your pompous demands that I cite 5 or ten or whatever scientists. Let me say again, it is not for you to demand anything. You do not set requirements, you are not empowered to demand, at some arbitrary point that I go on a mission to bring you something. You are not King, and I am not Hobbit. The belief in free speech and free inquiry, even by people that may be wrong, does not require scientific source. So, not only are your demands out of line, they are inappropriate to the subject at hand. Which by the way is not the nuts and bolts of ID, but the freedom to engage in debate on it in public. Including wether you like it or not in schools.
"We're fairly accustomed to stealth creationists who haughtily declare themselves the winners in a battle they couldn't locate on a map if they tried."
"We're acustomed"...oh is there a bunch of you guys, are you a fraternity or what? Do you have a secret handshake? "Stealth Creationist" Puh leaze! You are such a waste of time. I've figured out your religious hatred act. You can hide behind your briefcase full of studies and selective history but Jack the man shines through. As far as my inability to win an argument I can't find with both hands on a haughty map, you really need to study the advice that brevity is the soul of wit, and try and apply it to your prose. Good night Jack, enjoy your Torquemada.