Posted on 10/05/2005 10:51:13 AM PDT by tjbravo
President George W. Bush asked Congress on Tuesday to consider giving him powers to use the military to enforce quarantines in case of an avian influenza epidemic.
He said the military, and perhaps the National Guard, might be needed to take such a role if the feared H5N1 bird flu virus changes enough to cause widespread human infection.
"If we had an outbreak somewhere in the United States, do we not then quarantine that part of the country? And how do you, then, enforce a quarantine?" Bush asked at a news conference.
"It's one thing to shut down airplanes. It's another thing to prevent people from coming in to get exposed to the avian flu. And who best to be able to effect a quarantine?" Bush added.
"One option is the use of a military that's able to plan and move. So that's why I put it on the table. I think it's an important debate for Congress to have."
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.myway.com ...
We will declare a war against influenza. Problem solvid.
Then would come the stink of death after a while. i don't think many have smelled that either.
The people who think they can stand alone against a pandemic will have a nasty surprise should it come to that.
As you say, prevention of a pandemic is the goal. If it gets away from us this time, a billion+ casualties worldwide is a conservative estimate.
If he told me it was raining I'd look out the window. : )
..if you lived in a community were no one was ill, but the one next to you had a raging epidemic killing hundreds a day, wouldn't you want the military to keep them from coming into your healthy community and possibly making your family sick like them, and making the disease even more widespread?
I would accept the National Guard performing that duty, that is after all their core mission. If they are too "busy" elsewhere, then 'elsewhere' becomes a second priority and the guard is to be brought home.
Sending the "home guard" overseas, then using mercenaries, foreign troops (both of which happened in NO) and altering Posse Comitatus is the worst plan I can think of.
As bad as a pandemic could be, the proposed solution is worse. Military used at home is something free countries simply don't do. It's a defining characteristic of oppression.
There were plenty of NG at home, the problem was the Freakin governor never utilized her resources, so don't bother going with that crap that they were busy oversea's, because there is ZERO truth to that.
"I'm in the military and yes, I'm alarmed."
I have a cousin (like a brother to my mom) who is a senior NCO in the guard. Every time I turn around he is being activated for one reason or another. He's in LA now.
TLR
[people]..."were watched by soldiers with rifles"....."and that's without a pandemic."
Well said, and I agree with you (again). We are one major 'crisis' away from Martial Law. We are slowly being programed to accept Martial Law "for our own good".
It's too late to wake up the sheeple, but those with any memory left of what freedom really is (or was) had better take this seriously and stock up on food, water, medicine, fuel and all needed comodities.
The stage is being set as we speak. I personally think this outbreak in Canada is much more serious than the MSM is letting us know. Bush knows or he would not have come up with this idea today.
I weep for our lost freedoms, yet will die to preserve what few we have left.
The reason we have a guard is so we don't use foreign troops or mercenaries, or regular army for that matter.
There is no excuse whatsoever for any of those to be used at home. None. It's an insult to American sovereignty, and I really don't care if we hurt their feelings by turning their offers for "help" down.
With NO as a recent example of what really happens, I am disgusted as well as scared by the suggestion that Posse Comitatus be relaxed. If anything, NO is a good reason for it to be strengthened.
My grandfather talked about it from time to time many years ago.
They lived on a little spread on the Missouri/Iowa border and he claimed that out of the 23 or so people on their little place only seven or eight lived.
Mom died, sister died, brother died, aunts and uncles and other relatives too. He claimed that at one point the ground was frozen hard enough that they had to stack the bodies in the barn until it thawed out enough to dig graves.
He said it was pretty weird towards the end because they’d all be hanging out in the kitchen drinking coffee or whatever in silence and they’d all be taking glances at each other wondering who would be the next to keel over – and wondering whether they’d ALL eventually fall out.
Whatever. They were cut from considerably sturdier stock in those days and weren’t running around begging someone to help them.
Anyway, have we decided whether or not we’re worried about overpopulation or not? Occasionally the subject pops up and everybody gets all excited, but when the big outbreak that’d solve the overpopulation “problem” comes up everyone somehow turns their attention to fighting it.
Sorta a "big problem" (according to some) that we spend lots of money trying to maintain.
Gook luck. But I'll tell you right now, when everyone is dying around you because they CAN'T get any help, you'll be singing a different tune. Help me! my wife is dying, help me my kids are dying. and what if YOU die, and your wife dies, and your kid is sitting there wiwth your 2 corpses rotting, and can't go anywhere? You just don't understand the nature of a pandemic on this scale. At best, you'll live until you run out of food and water. But in a town full of rotting copses, you won't want to. Where will you go? Any town that DOESN'T have the plague, you can be sure they will have their people shooting anyone comming near it.
As do I. It's sad. It's nice to hear at least one other person is concerned. Sometimes I wonder if anyone else cares.
or
That can happen and he'd also be busy trying to hide from the 82nd Airborne, which wants to "take him to a secure facility for treatment", which in all likelihood is going to be a sports arena filled with dying people and guarded by machine gun nests.
You and me both. :-)
I don't see our military as a possible threat in a time of a medical catastrophe. I see them as possible angels in green uniforms helping their fellow citizens.
The worst part of it was that most of the people who died were between 15 and 35. At that time the average American male life expectancy was less than 50.
The OVERALL mortality rate seems low but when you consider the age group affected, you soon realize that it was really, really bad. Lots of grandparents ended up caring for their children's children because so many in the middle didn't make it.
There is a book about Montana settlers in the early 1900's called "Dancing at the Rascal Fair" that has a whole section on the 1918 flu. I went to medical school in the 70's and never heard of the 1918 Pandemic. I read this book in the 1980's and it was the first I'd ever heard of it. It is almost inconceivable to the modern American mind that things in our own country could have been as bad as they were then. As previously stated, this scares the heck out of me. In the worst case, it could be a species-threatening event.
It doesn't matter if the Posse Commitatus laws were violated if you and most of your community are dead.
Believe me, when the town grinds to a halt, the power goes out, the water no longer flows, and dead people are all over the place, with the smell permeating every breath you take, mice and rats feasting and scurrying around all over spreading disease everywhere, you would prefer that to at least a clean bed, a warm tent and water treatment to keep you alive or die like an old rat huddled in a room?
Lets not forget those that will be looting, etc. All people aren't good Christians you know. If you think it will be 1918, guess again.
But don't worry, if it's out of control, you won't see the 82 airborn anywhere. You'll on your own. SOL.
I didn't see the military anywhere back in the 40's AND 50'S. When as a child we had TB,measles, mumps,polo,whooping cough,scarlet fever, flu, small pox, chicken pox, and I could go on and on with the listing. We made it. The local health departments had good control of any quarantines. Families and friends worked together to support the quarantined. Now this is just one small town that I lived in. But I bet this was going on all over the country. We didn't have chicken Little's running all over the place shouting "the sky is falling". Military must be kept out of any quarantine illness, except for possible medical help. But physical surround a town or city with tanks, Humvee, and arm solders is an act of war. This could led to very sad results. No! Posse Comitatus.MUST STAND AS IS AND NOT BE SCRAPED OR DELUTED!!!
That's a nice thought, and very optomistic of you.
The reality is a bit different. People at the top are going to have some hard decisions to make. While they make have the best intentions, their version of "help" may be highly detrimental to people in the quarantine area, so that other areas are spared.
My main contention here is that the National Guard, under control of the states through their respective governors, and with federal assistance if it is asked for be the extent of the use of military at home. That's the model our republic uses. If the guard is not up to the job for whatever reason, then the guard's capabilities are to be increased. The model is not to be thrown out, EVER.
Use of regular forces, mercenaries and foreign troops is out of the question.
That's fine. Unless of course it contradicts "the plan". What if the powers that be don't want people in their homes? What if they want to "evacuate them for treatment", and treatment center becomes a thin euphamism for concentration camp? Therein lies the problem.
you would prefer that to at least a clean bed, a warm tent and water treatment to keep you alive or die like an old rat huddled in a room?
If there's some barbed wire around this clean bed, I'd prefer to spend my time in Hell. Really.
Lets not forget those that will be looting, etc.
I'll take care of that. That is unless weapons are confiscated again.
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