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To: Heatseeker
I have a question - did the IIAF Tomcats come with the Phoenix missles?

'Fraid so, dude. Theirs are probably junk by now, but the KGB got hold of one eventually (they got a complete F-14A from the Iranians first, courtesy of a KGB-engineered defection, but he flew his aircraft over slick), and today it's in production for the Russian AF and for the Chinese PLAAF, mated to the Su-27/30/33 "Tomcatsky" series.

Once the F-14D's are withdrawn from service, the Chinese PLAAF will have range advantages in both their a/c and their weapon systems. Not good, y'all.

Some guys kicked an idea around FR a year or two ago to purchase Russian-built Su-33's for the Fleet Air Arm as an interim measure until F-22's could begin to be delivered. Didn't think that idea would go anywhere, and it didn't.

Let's have a round of applause, shall we, for Dick Cheney, who as SecDef ordered the jigs and dies for the F-14 cut up to show Grumman Aviation how tough we were on budget-cutting? No, really. He did that. And Poppy -- an old Navy aviator himself -- went along with it. Really.

That's why there was never an "E" or "F" or Tomcat "G" model.

Now, why did Big Dick Cheney really do it? I'm all ears, if anyone knows.

And while we're on the subject of the F/A-18's being outranged and outclassed by a factor of two even before they launch a weapon, does anyone know if the Navy has successfully mated the AIM-54 Phoenix to the Super Hornet, or are we going to retire our rangiest AAM as well, to make the mismatch as complete as possible?

This is all a clever plan to lure the Chinese into acting from overconfidence, right? Somebody tell me that's right, that we've got a secret plan, or that we've already got 300 F-22's sitting under tarps at Davis-Monthan, painted up to resemble old F-18's or something.

29 posted on 10/01/2005 1:35:17 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus

Theirs are probably junk by now, but the KGB got hold of one eventually



This never happened!


32 posted on 10/01/2005 1:39:50 AM PDT by F14 Pilot (Democracy is a process not a product)
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To: lentulusgracchus

I heard he had a personal thing for the Grumman management, personnaly drove a stake throught the heart of the program....


34 posted on 10/01/2005 1:42:33 AM PDT by mcgiver38
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To: lentulusgracchus
And while we're on the subject of the F/A-18's being outranged and outclassed by a factor of two even before they launch a weapon, does anyone know if the Navy has successfully mated the AIM-54 Phoenix to the Super Hornet, or are we going to retire our rangiest AAM as well, to make the mismatch as complete as possible?

I wondered about that too, which was part of the reason I asked. Any idea how many USN F-14 air-to-air kills were made with the Phoenix?

44 posted on 10/01/2005 2:17:14 AM PDT by Heatseeker ("I sort of like liberals now. They’re kind of cute when they’re shivering and afraid." - Ann Coulter)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Once the F-14D's are withdrawn from service, the Chinese PLAAF will have range advantages in both their a/c and their weapon systems. Not good, y'all.

F/A-22.
46 posted on 10/01/2005 2:23:58 AM PDT by Terpfen (http://www.pattonhq.com/unknowntext.html)
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To: lentulusgracchus

Nope, they have not put 2 plus 2 together, nor will they. The range is also pathetic at 1,275 nautical miles naked! I repeat naked. I'm so tired of politicians ordering weapons. From McNamara's band to Dirk Chinney. Hope your defib unit goes high gain! McDonaldDoug is out of Fort Worth don't you know!

Builder:
McDonnell Douglas

Unit Cost:
$57 million

Power Plant:
Two F414-GE-400 turbofan engines

Thrust:
22,000 lbs (9,977 kg) per engine

Length:
60.3 feet (18.5 meters)

Wingspan:
44.9 feet (13.68 meters)

Cruise Speed:
Mach 1.8+

Ferry Range:
1,660 nautical miles (3,054 kilometers), two AIM-9s, three 480 gallon tanks retained

Combat Range:
1,275 nautical miles (2,346 kilometers), clean plus two AIM-9s


Crew:
E Models: One
F Models: Two



Max Take Off Gross Weight:
66,000 lbs (29,932 kg)

Ceiling:
50,000 feet

Armament:
One M61A1/A2 Vulcan 20mm cannon

External payload:
AIM 9 Sidewinder, AIM-9X (projected), AIM 7 Sparrow, AIM-120 AMRAAM, Harpoon, Harm, SLAM, SLAM-ER (projected), Maverick missiles; Joint Stand-Off Weapon (JSOW); Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM); Data Link Pod; Paveway Laser Guided Bomb; various general purpose bombs, mines and rockets. See ordnance diagram:

Introduction Date:
First flight in November 1995. Initial Operational Capability (IOC) in September 2001 with VFA-115, NAS Lemoore, Calif. First cruise for VFA-115 is onboard the USS Abraham Lincoln.

To launch a larger image, click on the thumbnail:


64 posted on 10/01/2005 5:52:37 AM PDT by STD (Every Knee Shall Bow)
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To: lentulusgracchus

It is remotely possible that the Federales have decided that the future does not lie with manned aircraft and "next big thing" will be some UAVs that make all manned aircraft obsolete.

But that is probably outrageous optimism.


70 posted on 10/01/2005 7:04:50 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: lentulusgracchus

As far as the Phoenix missle, I don't think we are allowed to use it anymore due to international laws. I think thats stupid but I am not a foreign policy advisor...I am just a NFO in training slated to report to the Super Hornet RAG soon. Yeah, I wish I could have been a RIO but missed my chance.


78 posted on 10/01/2005 8:20:14 AM PDT by zkbeta51
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To: lentulusgracchus
Now, why did Big Dick Cheney really do it? I'm all ears, if anyone knows.

He never met a modernized weapon system he liked? There is a long list of weapon systems killed while he was either SecDef or VP. Some of them deserved it, others left (or would have left) gaping holes in our defense.

P-3 monderization was killed in favor of the 737 based variant, which also seems to have bitten the dust.

The replacement for the KC-135s/KC-10s has been put on hold (although the Italians seem to like their new one)

SP artillery, attack helicopter, Osprey; the navy is being gutted. I'm probably missing several more systems.

80 posted on 10/01/2005 8:38:11 AM PDT by PAR35
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