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To: Amos the Prophet
I mean that there is no requirement that all events have some sort of antecedent. There is no logical reason that all effects must have causes, and indeed it's impossible to prove that effects must necessarily have causes. And, in fact, there are instances where there are completely uncaused events, such as the radioactive decay of an atom I talked about before.

Therefore, to suggest that uncaused causes are somehow illogical or irrational has a little problem with empirical falsification - in fact, uncaused causes happen all the time. We don't usually see them in our everyday lives, which is what makes the concept rather foreign to us, but the phenomenon is real and it really exists.

399 posted on 10/01/2005 11:01:54 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: general_re

radioactive decay. So you are saying nothing is acting on the atom from without or acting inside from within? I find that hard to believe. If an effect occurs without a cause, than that effect is self-existent. There is only one effect that I know of that is self-existent--I AM the Beginning and the End. But of course, we cannot have an eternal being that would mess up our temporal understanding. A God who delights in confounding man. A God who says all the nations of this world are vanity and He counts them less than vanity. A God who looks as flesh as grass or grasshoppers and earth is His footstool. Many people believed the sun revolved around the earth and later found out that the earth revolves around the sun. A lot of people still believes this universe revolves around the earth. Atheists believe in ultra-violet and infra-red light but to the naked eye it is invisible so it is with God.
Ok for all the hard core evolutionists why is so painful to have a being or beings directing the process. Maybe it is an exterrestial being. Most religions of the world believe the gods or a god made this world. So just because you don't want to give credit to the God of Bible doesn't mean you can't have some being doing it. You could go with Zeus.

In regards to cause and effect, you say something just occurs. A force just happens to exist in the universe and this non-intelligent force causes a big bang that makes the earth. Last I checked explosives, caused destruction making things burn up or go randomly in different directions
as well as having smaller pieces. Then we say that this cooled planet just happens to be just the right distance from the sun in just the right place in our galaxy. Wouldn't evolution work better if there was life that we could observe on all the other planets and moons in our solar system? Last I checked, I don't recall anyone finding any life on them.


415 posted on 10/01/2005 4:41:11 PM PDT by conserv371
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To: general_re

Two notes on the uncaused cause.
First,it has been a principle It has been an unassailable philosophical and logical position since the Greek philosophers that there can not be an uncaused cause. It was Occum who posed the notion that a thing stands alone, without precedents or antecedents. I do not remember that his position had much merit with the likes of Kant, Hegel, Locke and their ilk.
Second, I distinctly remember one of my theology profs insisting that there can be no uncaused cause in the universe. I guess I took that as an Aquinian proof of God.
Anyway, that is an idea that I have not seriously challenged for 40 years. Can you point me to some literature?


419 posted on 10/01/2005 7:18:26 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (THIS IS WAR AND I MEAN TO WIN IT.)
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