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The Great Jobs Switch: Why the Loss of Manufacturing Jobs is Good for America.
The Economist ^ | 9/29/2005 | Economist Magazine Editorial

Posted on 09/30/2005 11:54:00 AM PDT by SirLinksalot

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To: SirLinksalot

Weath is CREATED by converting raw/unusable materials to finished goods. That's manufacturing.

We make almost none of our clothes or shoes or TVs anymore. And more of our food comes from other countries. So, we're becoming less and less able to clothe and feed ourselves, to meet our own most basic needs. Bad.


61 posted on 09/30/2005 1:12:46 PM PDT by polymuser
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To: Alberta's Child

What is the most sophisticated manufacturing done in a country?
China household goods
Japan electronics
Germany autos
USA aerospace

When China can produced a B2 bomber or a Nimitz class carrier or a SSBN submarine I'll be worried.


62 posted on 09/30/2005 1:12:54 PM PDT by wordsofearnest (Ain't the whistle that pulls the train.)
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To: aspiring.hillbilly
World War II was the last time anyone fought a large-scale land war of that magnitude. Advances in technology and war-fighting capability have made a WW2-style military obsolete.

The U.S. may be incapable of "nation-building" in Third World sh!tholes, but we could probably sink an enemy nation's entire 500-ship navy in about 45 minutes.

63 posted on 09/30/2005 1:13:32 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: farlander

From the pages of Control Engineering

Tech industry employment brightens
-- 9/27/2005

Chicago, IL—The U.S. tech sector added nearly 190,000 jobs between January 2004 and June 2005, according to data generated by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and compiled by AeA, a high-tech U.S. trade association. The increase brings the total number of jobs in the sector to 5.72 million, a 3.4 % increase. The data, which show the tech sector has produced a net increase in jobs over the last six-, 12-, and 18-month time spans, are from a study released this month as part of AeA's ongoing Competitiveness Series.

"The data confirm our suspicion that the high-tech industry has recovered from the bursting of the tech bubble of 2000-2001," said AeA's president and CEO, William T. Archey. "While industry growth is by no means explosive, the rise in high-tech jobs has been steady, and we find it encouraging that even tech manufacturing experienced a small increase. The trend over the last 18 months has impressed us. After precipitous declines in 2001 and 2002, job losses began to slow, but only now are we witnessing actual gains. This benefits our economy as a whole because tech jobs pay 84% more than the average private sector job."

At the individual sector level, technology manufacturers added a net 21,800 jobs in the U.S. from January 2004 to June 2005 for a total of 1.36 million jobs, a 1.6 % increase and the first growth in tech manufacturing employment since 2000. Tech services providers added a net 167,000 jobs over the same time period for a total of 4.36 million jobs, a 4% rise. Within this sector, engineering and tech services added the most: 100,800. Software services came in second, with an employment growth of 75,600 jobs. Only communications services declined, losing 9,400 jobs.

Acknowledging the positive trends, Archey remained guardedly optimistic. "Continued growth of the U.S. tech sector is linked to our overall competitiveness in science and technology. Understand that while the United States remains preeminent in these spheres, our lead is slipping. Once we start addressing this issue, it will only enhance job growth in our industry. We need to renew our commitments to research and development, an educated workforce, and high-skilled immigration. The rest of the world is catching up to us and it’s time we start realizing that."


64 posted on 09/30/2005 1:13:33 PM PDT by RobFromGa (Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran-- what are we waiting for?)
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To: aspiring.hillbilly
Should a world war on a similar scale occur, we would be SOL. We cannot even keep a few hundred thousand troops in the middle east adequately supplied right now...

Consider how much more destructive modern weaponry is today. Then consider how 'networked' the world economy is. The result: WW3 would either be very brief, or it must not be fought at all -- take your pick.

Nobody is going to build fleets of bombers, ships & tanks the way we did in WW2 becaused modern warfighting doesn't require them. Therefore the manufacturing sector that builds them will be much smaller, and highly integrated -- and therefore more vulnerable to disruption.

65 posted on 09/30/2005 1:15:12 PM PDT by Tallguy
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To: SirLinksalot

IQ-wise: forget about India (they might have 200 million of IQ>100, but their other 1 billion with IQ<100 is a gigantic millstone around those 200 million's collective neck), and better watch China: avg IQ 100, and that includes poor areas with nutrition and medical services problems. After they pull them up, it will be 105-107. Our only hope is that their social system with its maniacal insistence on control would damp them down.


66 posted on 09/30/2005 1:15:42 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: aspiring.hillbilly
We cannot even keep a few hundred thousand troops in the middle east adequately supplied right now.

If FDR had proposed a $600 billion Medicare prescription drug plan in 1939, World War II never would have taken place at all -- because the Japanese wouldn't have bothered attacking three canoes and a couple of rickshaws at Pearl Harbor in 1941.

67 posted on 09/30/2005 1:15:54 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: TWohlford

Outstanding posting!


68 posted on 09/30/2005 1:16:28 PM PDT by Milwaukeeprophet (Neo and proud)
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To: RobFromGa

I can sure tell. The consulting rates' have been going up and the employers don't seem to mind too much at all. I'm getting recruiters call about once a week for different positions.


69 posted on 09/30/2005 1:16:50 PM PDT by farlander
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To: chimera
No discussion at all of the Achilles' Heel of this "no manufacturing is good" mantra: national security

Exactly my concern also.
Our electronics industry has been gone for years. Who makes the circuit boards for military computers, guidance systems, avionics?
Even our small arms are coming from Italy, Germany.
The vaunted Hellfire missile is British.
I understand even small arms ammo is being outsourced because our mfgr.s can't keep up with demand.

70 posted on 09/30/2005 1:18:00 PM PDT by Vinnie
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To: chimera
. . . all an enemy of the US has to do is go to those countries and "convince" them that it isn't "in their interest" to sell us that stuff anymore.

This country bombed a third-rate shmuck like Slobodan Milosevic into submission just because he tried to nationalize his country's mining industries, so I have no doubt that any such thing would generate a pretty harsh response from the U.S.

71 posted on 09/30/2005 1:19:00 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: SirLinksalot

"Higher-value R&D, design and marketing have stayed at home"

Not really true today. A lot of engineering is going overseas now too.


72 posted on 09/30/2005 1:19:18 PM PDT by Pessimist
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To: LizardQueen

>>>I've personally wondered if more manufacturing will come back onshore as the cost of transporting goods back and forth across the oceans increases, because of the cost of >>>

My husband lost his job this year in the textile industry to China. Literally. The slip said "trade with China has resulted in less ability to compete in the market". According to the Trade Agreement, he gets 2 years opportunity to go to school, but he can't work in those two years or he loses the benefit. So they will pay for school, but he has no income. He worked there for 32 years, expected to retire. People like Boortz will just deride him for not going to college, but he put his effort in this industry. Trained for robotics arm technician, made decent money. Now he has no marketable job skill.

I'm for free trade, just kind of sucks when you are in the position of losing a job for it. Also, we have to be realistic and understand that not every person in this country is capable of a college education. There are different levels of intellegence and there does need to be a place for them to take care of themself or the government will ultimately (or society) pay for it.

Don't know the answer.


73 posted on 09/30/2005 1:21:07 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: KC_for_Freedom

>>>If you are within ten years of retirement and the above does not describe you, get some more training fast, you are not likely to have your position for long.>>>

This does not apply if you are not in the country that they are hiring in.

IE: Hiring techs in India. No matter how good you are at your job, if you are not in the country they place their base, you are screwed.


74 posted on 09/30/2005 1:22:35 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: Alberta's Child
It might. For a time. Until our stocks start running low and we can't make any more of our own and can't buy any more from overseas suppliers who have a knife at their throats. Bombing Yugoslavia is one thing. Taking on China is another. Placing our national security in the hands of outside countries is probably not a good way to build a secure and powerful country.
75 posted on 09/30/2005 1:23:24 PM PDT by chimera
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To: Paloma_55

This is anecdotal, but in the one instance I've had fist had experience with, your assesment of the quality is about right.

I'm sure they'll get better over time though.

As for your point re the high level jobs staying here: That's fairly true right now, but the problem is there aren't that many of those jobs.


76 posted on 09/30/2005 1:23:37 PM PDT by Pessimist
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To: GSlob

I got real concerned about the capabilities of the Japanese when I saw how they built their cars. I stopped being concerned when I saw how they drive them.


77 posted on 09/30/2005 1:23:48 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: aspiring.hillbilly
As things stand now, we could not manufacture an equivalent amount of war material that was manufactured in WWII, with twice the population.

This is true. In 1939 the USA had less than 4,000 aircraft registered, both military and commercial. In the month of April, 1945, America produced over 4,500 aircraft in just that month alone. Even accounting for the differences in the complexity of propeller aircraft to jets, the equivalent level of production, adjusted for technology, could not be achieved by the US in 5 years. Even with the Chinese, supervised by American lawyers, programming the computers.

78 posted on 09/30/2005 1:25:41 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: SirLinksalot
Finally, a sensible economic observation.

BTW, have you ever had a long look at those Asian mfg line videos? What boring, stressful, soulless work!

Wasn't it that leftist Nike guy who got into the discussion with Micheal Moore about Americans not wanting to make shoes?

I'll take an Aerospace or construction job over any assembly line job any day of the week.
79 posted on 09/30/2005 1:26:32 PM PDT by Wiseghy (Discontent is the want of self-reliance: it is infirmity of will. – Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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To: SirLinksalot
"Their salaries are too high to even consider manufacturing or even outsourcing there anymore".
Outsourcing is only half the trouble, and a "smaller half" at that - as long as we collectively could maintain our technological superiority, stay half a step ahead of the rest and keep inventing new things before they do. Yes, it is like Sisyphus' labor, but at least we are moving, thus alive. The real trouble will start when those who are intellectually capable of it will overtake us technologically. Nothing is forever, including our current knowledge lead.
80 posted on 09/30/2005 1:26:58 PM PDT by GSlob
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