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To: Dimensio
Let me see if I got this:

We don't know where life came from, we don't know where matter came from, we don't know where nothing came from - BUT - we sure know that it wasn't created.

Do I got it?

255 posted on 09/29/2005 1:45:36 PM PDT by KMJames
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To: KMJames; Dimensio

no - you don't "got it"

natural science is limited to dealing with evidence and theories concerning that evidence - theories which explain the essentially mechanical interactions of matter and energy and which make predictions of future observations of such interactions.

We can say with a great deal of assurance that, back to a certain point, we understand the mechanics and timeline of how things have moved along. We can also, with a fair degree of certainty, debunk many superstitious stories which run counter to the mass of evidence we have available for study.

Can we absolutely prove any explanation in some ultimate sense?
No. There does not seem to be any end to the data or its variations, so no scientific explanation can ever be complete and absolutely inarguable - even setting aside absurd philosophical solipsistic quibbling on the reliablity of observation and the questionable nature of "reality".

Can we absolutely disprove any superstitious story in some ultimate sense?
Not really, no. The hypothetical existence of an OMNIPOTENT and INFINITELY SUBTLE (perhaps even DEVIOUS) and IMMATERIAL god-thing which is not detectable through direct or indirect observation cannot ever be completely dispelled, as semantical argument is not so fact-bound as science.


270 posted on 09/29/2005 2:09:49 PM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: KMJames
Let me see if I got this: We don't know where life came from, we don't know where matter came from, we don't know where nothing came from - BUT - we sure know that it wasn't created. Do I got it?

No, you not got it.

Science can say nothing either way about the supernatural claims like "creation". Science is the study of the natural. Science can say that phenomenon x appears to have the following explanation which may contradict some religions. If you have one of those religious faiths that may present a problem to you. For example the Bible used to be cited as a clear authority for a stationary earth at the centre of creation, but this denial over time just made the Christian church look very, very stupid. Christianity also resisted lightning rods, as attempting to defy God's manifest will that certain buildings should be destroyed. Problem was the brothel with a lightning rod got spared, while the nearby church got hit. How could God be resisted so easily? Let's have that St Augustine quote again.

"Usually even a non-Christian knows something about the Earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience .... Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for a non-believer to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics."

I know from reason and experience that the theory of evolution is broadly true. The evidence for it in numerous correlating fields of study is literally overwhelming. "Disgraceful and dangerous" sums it up the entirely religiously inspired resistance to it perfectly.

285 posted on 09/29/2005 3:09:24 PM PDT by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: KMJames
We don't know where life came from, we don't know where matter came from, we don't know where nothing came from - BUT - we sure know that it wasn't created.

You got it KMJames,

The cult of cosmo-evo distilled down to its essence.

Wolf

299 posted on 09/29/2005 3:39:46 PM PDT by RunningWolf (U.S. Army Veteran.....75-78)
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