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To: MineralMan
>When Ferrari engines reproduce naturally, with no human intervention, then your example will make some sense. Since they do not, it doesn't.

Sexual reproduction is more complicated than anything happening in the Ferrari engine. In fact the simplest one celled animal is more complicated than the Ferrari engine.

If a Ferrari engine couldn't just happen, how in hell are those kinds of things supposed to?

20 posted on 09/27/2005 9:45:01 AM PDT by tamalejoe
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To: tamalejoe
Sexual reproduction is more complicated than anything happening in the Ferrari engine.

Exactly!

In fact the simplest one celled animal is more complicated than the Ferrari engine.

Exactly!

If a Ferrari engine couldn't just happen, how in hell are those kinds of things supposed to?

Because non-replicating machines are created by an intelligent designer while replicating entities are the product of biological evolution.

22 posted on 09/27/2005 9:51:14 AM PDT by shuckmaster
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To: tamalejoe

That's a different argument, isn't it? First, we have a Ferrarri engine as an example of why evolution could not take place. That gets blown, so you post something about life being so complex that it could not have happened without some sort of divine intervention.

the Theory of Evolution says absolutely nothing about the origins of life. It deals only with the topic of speciation and its causes.

So, if life itself was created by some divine intervention, that does not alter the theory, since it doesn't deal with the origins of life at all.

Myself, I don't believe in supernatural entities, so I don't know how the first lifeform appeared. Neither do those who study evolution. There are hypotheses, but there's no way to study them. One hypothesis for the origins of life involves some sort of supernatural entity, but there's no way for science to study that, either.

Evolution can be observed. The creation of the first lifeform cannot. Therefore one may be studied, and the other cannot.

Perhaps one day, someone will figure out an experiment that creates a lifeform from non-living materials. If that happens, then we may learn more. Until then, we just have to say we don't know, scientifically.

Religionists have another point of view on the subject. They're welcome to it, but it's not science and so does not belong in science classes.


24 posted on 09/27/2005 9:52:05 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: tamalejoe
"Sexual reproduction is more complicated than anything happening in the Ferrari engine. In fact the simplest one celled animal is more complicated than the Ferrari engine. "

Quite true. That one fact just goes to show that human designers, which is what ID is based on, cannot consider all possibilities in their designs consequently they miss advantages. Evolution on the other hand is built just as our human knowledge is, new knowledge is based on a foundation of prior knowledge, with a few random ideas thrown in. After humans have been designing things for as long as evolution has, I'm sure we'll be able to handle more complicated designs. Unfortunately for ID, our inability to see all possibilities means we can not currently determine what could be designed unless it happens to resemble human designs. No guarantee that aliens would design like we do or would not emulate nature in their designs.

"If a Ferrari engine couldn't just happen, how in hell are those kinds of things supposed to?"

Do what engineers do [evolution], break large jobs up into many small easily handled jobs [cells], start with the smallest jobs possible [bacteria/virii/prions], use trial and error to determine the best fit [mutation and selection], base new designs on modified old designs [common descent], and take a very long time [3.8 billion years].

85 posted on 09/27/2005 10:49:00 AM PDT by b_sharp (Science adjusts theories to fit evidence, creationism distorts evidence to fit the Bible.)
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