[Thatcherite]

Besides the logic, you can tell it's the same thing because of the people surrounding the movement. The same people who promote Genesis creationism promote ID.

That is the killer point isn't it. People can claim that they reject evolution or promote ID for rational reasons until they are blue in the face; problem is, every single person who does so, without exception, is a convinced religious believer. So even though some of them think that they reject evolution rationally it is just Morton's Demon in operation.

[Vive ut Vivas]

People can claim that they reject evolution or promote ID for rational reasons until they are blue in the face; problem is, every single person who does so, without exception, is a convinced religious believer

Yup. If you talk to them long enough, eventually they admit that the reason they don't accept the evidence is because it conflicts with their beliefs. They have no other reason to reject it, and they are unable to. The creation/IDer spouting "logic" and "rationality" is a parody.

[b_sharp]

If the IDists that feel ID is not stealth creationism as stated by the Wedgie, then it is up to them to rid the philosophy of the creationist hacks that lead the DI and those that are using it to stuff it into science classes. Then they have to show that it can be a science worth accepting as such.

As it is, there is no way that design can be determined if the designer, purposefully or not, emulated nature in his/her/its designs. This alone limits it to determining human or human like design only