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To: MissAmericanPie
I'm sure the "company" feels your pain regarding the Luther's of this world, the flies in the ointment. Just think of how much could be consolidated and controlled if burning at the stake were still an option.=o)

I'm sorry, but any man who claims to know more than the followers of Christ, the first Christians and the 1500 years of Christians before him about what Christ actually taught is to be highly suspect in his thinking.

If you study the history of Christianity, you will not find "sola sciptura," "sola fides," rejection of the sacraments, rejection of the priesthood/celibacy, rejection of intercessory prayer, etc., prior to Martin Luther. To follow Martin Luther is to follow a tradition invented in the 16th Century. To follow the Catholic Church is to follow a tradition began by the Apostles themselves.

Which do you suppose is truer to the saying and teachigs of Christ?
65 posted on 09/28/2005 4:38:49 AM PDT by mike182d ("Let fly the white flag of war." - Zapp Brannigan)
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To: mike182d

I have to disagree with your claim that the Catholic Church was handed the reins by the apostles. Catholic doctrine flies in the face of the detailed scriptures regarding the qualifications of a preacher/teacher. The bible never speaks of an organized priesthood.

In fact given what Christ had to say to the priesthood of the time, calling them snakes, one would logically assume that this type of organization of priests leads to corruption. Given the sexual assult of homosexual/predator priests on altar boys I can't see why the Catholic Church would feel it's so much better to have child molesters in charge of their flocks rather than those awful married fathers.

This is just one example of where the Catholic Church went off the tracks regarding their doctrine verses scripture. Don't get me started on the corruption and abuse of their followers through the centuries until the common man wrested the scriptures from their control.


69 posted on 09/28/2005 5:20:57 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: mike182d
If you study the history of Christianity, you will not find "sola sciptura," "sola fides," rejection of the sacraments, rejection of the priesthood/celibacy, rejection of intercessory prayer, etc., prior to Martin Luther.

Wow. Your history gets wilder and wilder. You need to get out more. You think Luther invented the ideas of Reformation? Truth be told, the excesses of the Papacy from 1200 to 1500 had a greater effect.

Put aside whether Luther was right or wrong (I am not a Luther fan myself), your history must be coming from the same source that says burning at the stake only hurts mildly. Sheesh. There is a LONG list of people exterminated by the Roman Church for very much the same things that the Reformation pressed.

Peter Waldo predated Luther by almost 400 years. He taught many of the same things that Luther/Calvin/Zwingli did 400 years later - and it brought the Waldensians the same harsh and murderous treatment as the Jews would receive in Spain 300 years later. Tell me, what excuses does your "All Saints' Excuses, A Catholic History" book say for the treatment of the Waldensians? There are many more, and many more earlier, but you are welcome to your revisionism.
108 posted on 09/28/2005 11:55:49 AM PDT by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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