Posted on 09/26/2005 2:52:53 PM PDT by Uncle Joe Cannon
Schroeder took a play from the Albert Gore, Jr. Handbook??
I assume the Germans joined in in the America bashing of 2000 when europeons were laughing about our "messy" political system.
AlGore would have done the same thing.
Where is Ludendorf when you need him.
This is all Bush's fault.
Sounds a bit like washington State. i wonder how many dead folks voted for Schroeder.
Has Al Gore declared himself the real winner of the German election yet?
Has Gerhard retreated to the bunker to pore over maps of nonexistent voters?
Amazing. Every single reply posted is nonsense! Some kind of record?
You can't apply your dodgy American standards to German elections. There was no vote fraud, and no clear winner. It's not possible for the dead to cast votes in the German system; there are no voting machines or computers, it's all paper ballots. Counting is scrupulously monitored by all-party committees.
There is no queuing to cast votes, even with an 80% turnout. I remember in your 2004 election that there were long lines waiting to vote, some of whom gave up because they had to go to work. And that was with about 65% turnout! And then there were those chads, unclear ballot papers, supposedly partisan election officials, incomplete electoral rolls etc. etc. That's why Europeans thought your voting system was messy.
In Germany everything was totally fair. But unlike in the USA there are alternatives to the two big parties, and this is what makes the result difficult. Tyranny by one party is not possible - this system was deliberately chosen to prevent that.
It's a question of what you prefer: totally fair voting producing an inconclusive result, or inefficient and unfair procedures giving a clear victory to one of two parties.
I know what I prefer.
You may be living in Krautland, but you are obviously ignorant of its electoral traditions. In post war history, the party with the largest parliamentary bloc has had the first crack at forming a coalition - Schroeder decided to turn that tradition on its head.
As for the supposed long lines to vote in 2004. Sure, that was true in a few isolated areas. By far the exception, not the rule.
"And then there were those chads, unclear ballot papers"
Unless you're retarded, using the punch hole ballots is about as idiot proof as one can imagine. People who cannot figure out how to punch a piece of paper out through their ballot selection do not deserve to have their vote counted.
Krautland? OK.
I agree that Merkel should have first crack at forming a coalition and that Schröder is overplaying his hand - most Germans think so too, this is just poker-playing, and in the end Merkel will edge in as a lame-duck chancelloress.
Pleased to hear that long lines are the exception in your elections in Septicland. I was just judging by the TV coverage I saw.
Don't know about the mechanics of voting machines, but I understand that there were concerns about their reliability and all sorts of debates about dimpled, hanging, pregnant chads (although I admit I wasn't really interested in the details). Why didn't spare spare yourself problems and use paper ballots?
Don't believe everything you see on television. The USA is 50 states. Within those 50 states are countless counties. In a few select counties, all run by Democrats, local election officials totally mismanaged the process long prior to the election, by failing to secure sufficient polling places and ballot machines.
Sure, having a patchwork system of state and local officials running national elections can be messy, but that's called Federalism.
"Why didn't spare spare yourself problems and use paper ballots?"
Some states use paper ballots. One problem with paper ballots is that there are often 20 to 30 different races or ballot initiatives to vote on in any even election.
Germany is a Federal state too, with 16 states, each divided into districts. However AFAIK everything is handled exactly the same all over the country. Don't quite understand why it isn't standardised in your country too.
Occasionally German voters have to vote in both local elections and state elections at the same time. Answer: two separate ballot papers. However, it's never more than that.
It seems strange that you complicate your elections with 20 to 30 issues and initiatives. No wonder so many of you don't bother to vote!
Because each state can then manage elections the way it wants. It's called States' Rights. We're big on de-centralization, though to be fair, the fedgov is getting larger and larger...
It seems strange that you complicate your elections with 20 to 30 issues and initiatives.
Those are local issues and initiatives. No reason to have voters in N. Dakota voting on Alabama issues. When the law says that expanding the school board membership in one location must be voted on in a general election in that district, then the expansion goes on the ballot even in a presidential election year.
Don't quite understand why it isn't standardised in your country too.
Because each state can then manage elections the way it wants. It's called States' Rights. We're big on de-centralization, though to be fair, the fedgov is getting larger and larger...
It seems strange that you complicate your elections with 20 to 30 issues and initiatives.
Those are local issues and initiatives. No reason to have voters in N. Dakota voting on Alabama issues. When the law says that expanding the school board membership in one location must be voted on in a general election in that district, then the expansion goes on the ballot even in a presidential election year.
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