Posted on 09/26/2005 2:52:53 PM PDT by Uncle Joe Cannon
No talks until Schroeder gives up chancellery: Merkel
26 September 2005
BERLIN - Angela Merkel turned up the heat on Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder by vowing Monday not to open formal talks for a coalition with his Social Democrats unless he gave up his demand to remain Germany's leader.
Merkel's Christian Democratic alliance (CDU/CSU) came in first in Germany's September 18 election but failed to win a majority, leaving the nation in political deadlock.
Both Merkel and Schroeder have claimed the right to set up the next government.
Merkel, who met with Schroeder for exploratory talks last week and will do so again on Wednesday, stressed that formal negotiations for a grand coalition between her CDU/CSU and the Chancellor's SPD would only take place if Schroeder dropped claims to the chancellery.
"The precondition on trust is that we, as the biggest party, put up the chancellor," said Merkel.
Aside from assurances the SPD was not seeking to set up a minority government when the new parliament convenes by October 18, Merkel set several other conditions before full-blown coalition talks can begin.
She said both parties must agree on the general state of the nation and its problems, including massive budget deficits. There also had to be agreement on the key problem areas to be tackled including the controversial issue of further jobless benefit cuts.
Comments by Schroeder at the weekend had been interpreted as showing he was softening his insistence on staying on as head of a grand coalition.
But remarks Monday by leading members of his SPD - which appear to have been coordinated by the party - made clear there was no softening of this demand.
"Gerhard Schroeder will be chancellor," said Ludwig Stiegler, a deputy leader of the SPD in parliament.
Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul, who heads the development aid ministry, insisted: "Frau Merkel has lost."
On election night, Schroeder vowed to stay on as chancellor despite the fact that his SPD won 34.3 per cent compared to 35.2 per cent for Merkel's CDU/CSU.
Merkel's party won about 444,000 votes more than Schroeder's SPD and has 225 seats in the Bundestag, compared with 222 for the SPD.
Since then Schroeder has proposed a variety of scenarios, including sharing the chancellorship with Merkel on a rotating basis.
But all such proposals have been rejected by Merkel's party.
Trying a different approach, Schroeder on Sunday said it was imperative to put together a viable grand coalition first, adding that the issue of who should be chancellor could be decided later.
This proposal was torpedoed by Merkel at her Monday news briefing.
Rising pressure for an awkward marriage of Merkel's and Schroeder's parties came after efforts by both leaders to forge coalitions with other smaller parties failed last week.
Schroeder's bid to woo the centrist Free Democrats (FDP) was stymied by FDP head Guido Westerwelle's staunch support of Merkel.
And Merkel's talks with the SPD's current coalition partners, the Greens, broke down on Friday with both sides saying the chasm between the leftist Greens and the conservative Christian Democrats was just too great.
The FDP took 61 seats, yielding total backing for Merkel of 286, well short of the 307 'chancellor majority' required in the initial balloting for the chancellor in the Bundestag.
The Greens, who have been in coalition with the SPD for the past seven years, secured 51 seats. This gives Schroeder's outgoing SPD-Greens bloc 273 seats.
The Left Party of former East Germany's communists and rebel SPD members took 54 seats, placing it fourth behind the FDP and ahead of the Greens.
Schroeder has vowed not to use the Left Party to get reelected but there is speculation he may use the informal backing of the party to set up a minority government.
Under Germany's constitution, if voting for a new chancellor in the Bundestag fails to yield the 'chancellor majority' in two rounds then a third round of voting is held in which the candidate who gets the most votes is elected head of government.
This, however, must be given a green light by Germany's federal president, Horst Koehler, who could instead reject the result as too unstable and call new elections.
The Bundestag meets on October 18 at the latest to begin the process of choosing a new chancellor.
DPA
Schroeder took a play from the Albert Gore, Jr. Handbook??
I assume the Germans joined in in the America bashing of 2000 when europeons were laughing about our "messy" political system.
AlGore would have done the same thing.
Where is Ludendorf when you need him.
This is all Bush's fault.
Sounds a bit like washington State. i wonder how many dead folks voted for Schroeder.
Has Al Gore declared himself the real winner of the German election yet?
Has Gerhard retreated to the bunker to pore over maps of nonexistent voters?
Amazing. Every single reply posted is nonsense! Some kind of record?
You can't apply your dodgy American standards to German elections. There was no vote fraud, and no clear winner. It's not possible for the dead to cast votes in the German system; there are no voting machines or computers, it's all paper ballots. Counting is scrupulously monitored by all-party committees.
There is no queuing to cast votes, even with an 80% turnout. I remember in your 2004 election that there were long lines waiting to vote, some of whom gave up because they had to go to work. And that was with about 65% turnout! And then there were those chads, unclear ballot papers, supposedly partisan election officials, incomplete electoral rolls etc. etc. That's why Europeans thought your voting system was messy.
In Germany everything was totally fair. But unlike in the USA there are alternatives to the two big parties, and this is what makes the result difficult. Tyranny by one party is not possible - this system was deliberately chosen to prevent that.
It's a question of what you prefer: totally fair voting producing an inconclusive result, or inefficient and unfair procedures giving a clear victory to one of two parties.
I know what I prefer.
You may be living in Krautland, but you are obviously ignorant of its electoral traditions. In post war history, the party with the largest parliamentary bloc has had the first crack at forming a coalition - Schroeder decided to turn that tradition on its head.
As for the supposed long lines to vote in 2004. Sure, that was true in a few isolated areas. By far the exception, not the rule.
"And then there were those chads, unclear ballot papers"
Unless you're retarded, using the punch hole ballots is about as idiot proof as one can imagine. People who cannot figure out how to punch a piece of paper out through their ballot selection do not deserve to have their vote counted.
Krautland? OK.
I agree that Merkel should have first crack at forming a coalition and that Schröder is overplaying his hand - most Germans think so too, this is just poker-playing, and in the end Merkel will edge in as a lame-duck chancelloress.
Pleased to hear that long lines are the exception in your elections in Septicland. I was just judging by the TV coverage I saw.
Don't know about the mechanics of voting machines, but I understand that there were concerns about their reliability and all sorts of debates about dimpled, hanging, pregnant chads (although I admit I wasn't really interested in the details). Why didn't spare spare yourself problems and use paper ballots?
Don't believe everything you see on television. The USA is 50 states. Within those 50 states are countless counties. In a few select counties, all run by Democrats, local election officials totally mismanaged the process long prior to the election, by failing to secure sufficient polling places and ballot machines.
Sure, having a patchwork system of state and local officials running national elections can be messy, but that's called Federalism.
"Why didn't spare spare yourself problems and use paper ballots?"
Some states use paper ballots. One problem with paper ballots is that there are often 20 to 30 different races or ballot initiatives to vote on in any even election.
Germany is a Federal state too, with 16 states, each divided into districts. However AFAIK everything is handled exactly the same all over the country. Don't quite understand why it isn't standardised in your country too.
Occasionally German voters have to vote in both local elections and state elections at the same time. Answer: two separate ballot papers. However, it's never more than that.
It seems strange that you complicate your elections with 20 to 30 issues and initiatives. No wonder so many of you don't bother to vote!
Because each state can then manage elections the way it wants. It's called States' Rights. We're big on de-centralization, though to be fair, the fedgov is getting larger and larger...
It seems strange that you complicate your elections with 20 to 30 issues and initiatives.
Those are local issues and initiatives. No reason to have voters in N. Dakota voting on Alabama issues. When the law says that expanding the school board membership in one location must be voted on in a general election in that district, then the expansion goes on the ballot even in a presidential election year.
Don't quite understand why it isn't standardised in your country too.
Because each state can then manage elections the way it wants. It's called States' Rights. We're big on de-centralization, though to be fair, the fedgov is getting larger and larger...
It seems strange that you complicate your elections with 20 to 30 issues and initiatives.
Those are local issues and initiatives. No reason to have voters in N. Dakota voting on Alabama issues. When the law says that expanding the school board membership in one location must be voted on in a general election in that district, then the expansion goes on the ballot even in a presidential election year.
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