Posted on 09/24/2005 2:08:34 PM PDT by wagglebee
I just read the text of Doe v. Bolton, and did not see where it barred states from imposing regulation and restrictions on abortion based on gestation length/viability. On the other hand, it did state and affirm Roe's language that the right to abortion on demand is not absolute.
Would you mind pointing me to the section of the decision that specifically bans states from limiting abortion after a certain gestational age?
What is insane, regardless of your stance on abortion, is to compare us unfavorably to Islamofascist terrorists. To begin, Bin Laden and his ilk murder Muslim children ALL THE TIME. That kind of talk veers dangerously close to the "we deserve to be attacked by terrorists" justification. Any statement on FR that could just as easily be heard on al Jazeera is over the line, IMHO.
http://www.peopleforlife.org/bolton.html
Contains what Blackmum ruled and other justices concurred with with Justices White and Rehnquist dissenting.
Roe v. Wade made abortion legal.
What Doe v. Bolton argued was that there were a number of restrictions on abortion in Georgia that the Roe v. Wade ruling did not address.
Basically, putting restrictions on abortion (in the case of Doe v. Bolton), the plaintiffs alleged that the Georgia statues were unconstitional, but were not addressed by Roe v. Wade.
There were a number of restrictions listed:
1. Person must be a resident of Georgia
2. Physician must approve the abortion
3. That those performing the abortion could dissent from it based on religious convictions.
But if you understand that Doe v. Bolton, addressed any restrictions on abortion, then that is where throughout the nine months of the pregnancy comes from.
A Freeper lawyer with a background in constitutional law could describe it better.
I have no legal background, but I believe that where the basis for the full nine months of the pregnancy comes from.
Basically, saying the baby is now viable (live outside the womb), would be considered a restriction.
Incidentally, Sandra Canoe, the Doe of Doe v. Bolton, never wanted an abortion. Some attorneys approached saying if she would sign these papers, they would get children returned (who was taken by the state of Georgia). She was pregnant at the time, but she was never informed of what this about, and was asked if she wanted an abortion, but she said no.
She was unaware that they were using her to push this decision through.
But the key point is that Roe v. Wade made abortion legal, and Doe v. Bolton addressed the issue of placing restrictions on abortion (which Roe v. Wade did not address).
It may be as clear as mud, but this is the best explanation I can give, and since I am not a constitutional lawyer, I could be wrong.
Privacy was another aspect of this ruling.
Those statistics, unless they go back to 1980, are not very meaningful.
You cannot exclude abortion as a factor in the death during childbirth.
That was something that Mark Crutcher found was true at the CDC during the Clinton years -- manipulation of statistics.
You did provide a reference, granted, but I personally do not buy into the mortality rate, unless there is specific data on those women who died during childbirth. If those women had previously had an abortion, and the childbirth death was due to a previous abortion, that must be annoted to make the statistics clear.
Without any stats, then things like ecotopic pregnancies that cause deaths are not considered -- especially since it has been found that the scraping of the womb by some abortion procedures has been found as a cause of ecotopic pregnancies.
It is sort of like saying that a particular intersection is more lethal than another one, without providing background info.
One intersection might be close to a bar, and it might be the result of drunk drivers running redlights, as an example of what can go wrong with just raw numbers.
And what you are saying is what Mark Crutcher found out was going on at the CDC -- if a woman died as a result of complications of a previous abortion during childbirth -- it was ruled as a death caused by childbirth -- not by the previous abortion.
It is just too simple a way to look at numbers.
Terrible, terrible, terrible.
Why does God allow George Tiller to continue to live?
Killing your own babies and future citizens by the millions is the most insane act I know of;we kill as many every day as Bin Laden did in one day.
Why did he allow Joseph Mengele to live to old age? Why does he allow young children to die at the hands of perverts? God gave us free will, some use it to the good, some to the ill of society. His judgment comes after physical death, when we must account for ourselves before Him. I am totally against killing people who work in abortion industries. God will judge them, it is not up to any mortal man to do and meet out punishment that is the purvue of the Lord.
Huh? And you're willing to make this bet because nerdgirl was not fully informed on the law?
Thanks for letting ME vent!
Having done some extra reading on this topic, I must inform you that this statistic (wherever you got it from) is very misleading.
On one level, it can be argued that abortion is physically safer to the mother than live birth, because the majority of abortions in this country are performed before the 9th weekof pregnancy, when killing the tiny developing baby and removing his or her physical remains from the mother's body, is a relatively rapid and simple procedure, compared to labor and delivery at term.
What the statistic conceals, though, is that in a country like the USA, where almost all birthgiving women have access to modern obstetrics, maternal death is very rare; and a percentage of those deaths are related to complications caused by previous abortions.
Some complications of abortion reveal themselves days, months and even as much as 10-15 years later; and --- here's the kicker ----some of them produce complications in later pregnancy and childbirth. A few you'd want to look at:
Infection, especially pelvic inflammatory disease or PID.
Perforation of uterus. During suction, D&C and D&E abortions, the abortionist is operating blindly, by sense of feel. If he manipulates the surgical instrument too easily or too forcibly, he can puncture the woman's uterus and even her bladder or bowel.
Embolisms. An embolism is an obstruction of a blood vessel by a foreign substance such as air, fat, tissue, or blood clot. Childbirth is a normal process, and the body is well prepared for the birth of the child and the separation and expulsion of the placenta. Surgical abortion is an abnormal process and slices the unripe placenta from the wall of the uterus into which its roots have grown.
In a study done by abortionists themselves, out of 1,182 suction abortions, they reported 9.5% of their patients required blood transfusions, 4.2% suffered cervical lacerations, 1.2% had uterine perforations, and 27% developed infections. (J.A. Stalworthy, et. Al., "Legal Abortion: A Critical Assessment of its Risks," The Lancet). Ectopic pregnancies. If the scar tissue covers the openings from the fallopian tube to the uterus only partially, then the sperm will be able to reach the egg in the tube. Conceptions occurs, and fertilized egg (baby) begins to grow and move toward the uterus. The fertilized egg is too large to get from the fallopian tube to the uterus opening because of the scar tissue blocking part of the opening. The baby continues to grow inside the tube, eventually causing the tube to burst. If surgery is not done to remove the baby, then the mother will die. There has been a 300% increase in ectopic pregnancies since abortion was legalized. (US Dept. H.H.S., Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, no. 33, no. 15, April 20, 1984).
Among women who aborted their first pregnancy there was a 500% increase in subsequent ectopic pregnancies. (Chung et al. "Effects of Induced Abortion Complications on Subsequent Reproductive Function" U. of Hawaii, Honolulu)
Cervical incompetence. After infection, damage to the cervix is the next leading cause of post-abortion reproductive problems. Normally the cervix is rigid and tightly closed during pregnancy. However, during abortion the cervix undergoes tremendous stress and is often torn, resulting in permanent weakening. In a later "wanted" pregnancy, this may result in the cervix opening prematurely, resulting in miscarriage or premature birth. For this reason, the chance that a later "wanted" child will die during pregnancy or labor is at least twice as high for previously aborted women. One study shows the risk of premature delivery and second trimester miscarriage increases 10 times for women who have had abortions.
Normally 5% of babies are born premature. This rate jumps to 40% on aborted women. (Aborted Women, Silent No More: Twenty Women Share Their Personal Journeys from the Tragedy of Abortion to Restored Wholeness by David C. Reardon). Teenage girls are at increased risk because they have immature cervixes and "run the risk of a difficult and potentially traumatic dilation." (C. Powell, Problems of Adolescent Abortion, Ortho Panel 14, Toronto General Hospital). In one study of 50 teenage girls who had abortions there were 47 later "wanted" pregnancies. Of these 47 pregnancies 66% ended in defective births, including 19 miscarriages and 7 premature births. Only 34% ended with a full-term delivery of a healthy child.
I have no objection for any method of terminating a pregnancy, as long as it is safe for both mother and child...
I can't take credit for putting that quote with that picture, but because I agree that it really IS and awesome quote, it's one of my "keepers".
>>>You know what I think would be money well spent by pro-lifers? Opening crisis pregnancy centers in the immediate vicinity of abortion mills.<<<
DOH! Where have you two been? This has already been done in just about every large, medium, and small-sized city in America.
You never heard of Birthright? Pregnancy Care Center? Christian Life Center? Mom's House?
etc. etc. etc. etc.
Here is the autopsy report:
http://www.operationrescue.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album43
I am sick to my stomach and I am angry and shaking because I am hoding back my tears so I can get this posted. LISTEN to the 911 "call" by Marguerite at the abortion facility...
http://www.dr-tiller.com/images/nosirenplease.mp3
Please see 176 - 178. I know I'm coming in late to this thread, but someone else needs to see and hear this which I've posted.
I wonder how many contributions you'll get to your campaign with that horrendous attitude.
So we sanction killing?
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