Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Need To Seed -- Massive Cloud or Ocean Seeding - Could It Make A Difference?
Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratories ^ | 9/21/05 | Robert Widmann

Posted on 09/22/2005 11:46:25 AM PDT by Diogenez

The U.S. Government once supported research into methods of hurricane modification, known as Project STORMFURY. For a couple decades NOAA and its predecessor tried to weaken hurricanes by dropping silver iodide - a substance that serves as a effective ice nuclei - into the rainbands of the storms. During the STORMFURY years scientists seeded clouds in Hurricanes Esther (1961), Beulah (1963), Debbie (1969), and Ginger (1971). The experiments took place over the open Atlantic far from land. The STORMFURY seeding targeted convective clouds just outside the hurricane's eyewall in an attempt to form a new ring of clouds that, it was hoped, would compete with the natural circulation of the storm and weaken it. The idea was that the silver iodide would enhance the thunderstorms of a rainband by causing the supercooled water to freeze, thus liberating the latent heat of fusion and helping a rainband to grow at the expense of the eyewall. With a weakened convergence to the eyewall, the strong inner core winds would also weaken quite a bit. For cloud seeding to be successful, the clouds must contain sufficient supercooled water (water that has remained liquid at temperatures below the freezing point, 0°C/32°F). Neat idea, but it, in the end, had a fatal flaw. Observations made in the 1980s showed that most hurricanes don't have enough supercooled water for STORMFURY seeding to work - the buoyancy in hurricane convection is fairly small and the updrafts correspondingly small compared to the type one would observe in mid-latitude continental super or multicells.

In addition, it was found that unseeded hurricanes form natural outer eyewalls just as the STORMFURY scientists expected seeded ones to do. This phenomenon makes it almost impossible to separate the effect (if any) of seeding from natural changes. The few times that they did seed and saw a reduction in intensity was undoubtedly due to what is now called "concentric eyewall cycles". Thus nature accomplishes what NOAA had hoped to do artificially. No wonder that the first few experiments were thought to be successes. Because the results of seeding experiments were so inconclusive, STORMFURY was discontinued. A special committee of the National Academy of Sciences concluded that a more complete understanding of the physical processes taking place in hurricanes was needed before any additional modification experiments. The primary focus of NOAA's Hurricane Research Division today is better physical understanding of hurricanes and improvement of forecasts. To learn about the STORMFURY project as it was called, read Willoughby et al. (1985).


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: anita; huirricane; karlrovemachine; roveweathermachine; seeding; weathermodification
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-45 next last
STORMFURY seeding involved no more than a couple of DC-6s. Hundreds of sorties carrying ground ice or silver idodide dropped into the ocean or the storm at critical points might now make a difference. We know very much more about what these critical points might be than we knew in the 1960's. And in the 60's we used only 2 DC 6s not hundreds.
1 posted on 09/22/2005 11:46:30 AM PDT by Diogenez
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Diogenez
"Weather Modification Research and Technology Transfer Authorization Act of 2005."

Its purpose ...? Here's a direct quote from the Senate version of Bill S. 517:
SEC. 2. PURPOSE.

It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development ....

2 posted on 09/22/2005 11:50:23 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: theFIRMbss

"It is the purpose of this Act to develop and implement a comprehensive and coordinated national weather modification policy and a national cooperative Federal and State program of weather modification research and development ...."

Yep. Probably worth the investment, since we are in the early phases of a 40 year nasty weather cycle.


3 posted on 09/22/2005 11:53:40 AM PDT by quantfive
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez
Here's another idea for combating hurricanes. These ideas seem outlandish -- but, so have many other technological developments, before they were tried and proven.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1474250/posts
4 posted on 09/22/2005 11:54:07 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

That begs the question; what risk are we willing to assume over the weather? An act of god is beyond our control, but altering a natural process, exposes us for our direct intervention. What if we spark a flood over Cuba in order to reduce a CAT 5 to a CAT 4; would that be an act of war?


5 posted on 09/22/2005 11:54:56 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

6 posted on 09/22/2005 11:55:05 AM PDT by msnimje (Cogito Ergo Sum Republican)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

They just need to get a whole bunch of airplanes, to fly clockwise about 200mph, around the hurricane, in ever-decreasing circles.


7 posted on 09/22/2005 11:59:33 AM PDT by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: msnimje

It would make more sense to change the zoning and construction standards to resist the worst that a catagory V storms can throw at us.


8 posted on 09/22/2005 12:03:32 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr

"Effect of the Reich weather control apparatus
on a small cumulus cloud. Time between frames: one minute.
The black "X" designates the direction
of the antenna at the beginning
of the apparatus I use, (From a motion picture sequence)"
9 posted on 09/22/2005 12:05:01 PM PDT by theFIRMbss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

Government modifying the weather. OK if it benefits you. Someone will object, claim to have gotten wet when they didn't want or didn't get rain when they should and the lawyers will get richer.


10 posted on 09/22/2005 12:06:09 PM PDT by FreePaul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr

How about a liquid nitrogen MOAB?


11 posted on 09/22/2005 12:06:50 PM PDT by trublu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: ARCADIA
It would make more sense to change the zoning and construction standards to resist the worst that a catagory V storms can throw at us.

It may be cheaper just to rebuild the house 4 or 5 times.

12 posted on 09/22/2005 12:08:34 PM PDT by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

13 posted on 09/22/2005 12:09:13 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

NO. That is messing with Mother Nature and the natural order of things. I think this article shows how much man thinks of himself and how much he thinks he can do to change the order. Dangerous.


14 posted on 09/22/2005 12:09:44 PM PDT by cubreporter (I trust Rush. He has done good more for our country than anyone will know. He's a man of honor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

I just don't see puny mankind being able to put much of a dent in a hurricane - without tempting even more catastrophic consequences.


15 posted on 09/22/2005 12:10:33 PM PDT by manwiththehands
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez
The Need To Seed

I've had it since I was 15.
16 posted on 09/22/2005 12:12:38 PM PDT by BikerNYC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Diogenez

Kurt Vonnegut Jr's brother invented the cloud seeding thing...


17 posted on 09/22/2005 12:16:03 PM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Robert Heinlein)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mewzilla
They're already controlling the weather:

Image hosted by TinyPic.com

18 posted on 09/22/2005 12:21:33 PM PDT by paulat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: paulat

LOL.


19 posted on 09/22/2005 12:23:47 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
It may be cheaper just to rebuild the house 4 or 5 times.

The house is one thing; but restocking the warm bodies three or four times, and the repetitive costs of rescue, and public hand ringing, makes it preferable to build the dumb thing right the first time. Besides; such a home will probably prove more durable and energy efficient, and can be a good step in hardening the country against crime and terrorist attacks. A CAT V house is almost a military bunker.
20 posted on 09/22/2005 12:25:16 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-45 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson