Posted on 09/21/2005 5:32:58 PM PDT by Coleus
All religions say that kind of stuff. They hate competition.
Stolen from Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis who got it from Rabelais (however you spell his name).
Most of "Wicca" is just recycled Aleister Crowley hobgoblins. Magick in Theory and Practice, Book IV, Liber Legis, yadda yadda yadda...
I have read all the literatures applicable to the esoteric drivel from Wicca, Church of Satan, the Rosicrucians, Temple of Set, Kabbalah, the Obic Sephiroth, etc, etc, ad nauseum... it is all a bunch of bullcrap...
Examine the history my screen name.
This link will explain things in detail: http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults00.htm
Astrology is another blatant example of primitive pagan idolatry and fantasy with planets of the solar system assigned the names of pagan gods, stars grouped as fantastical images of mythical legend, whereby the fate of a person is purportedly revealed. The astrologers are revered as prophets by psychotic, neurotic adherents in frequent fanatical devotion to any musings these charlatans utter.
Images of distant stars being most often many centuries and millenniums old, are no things corporeal. The actual objects have ceased to exist as perceived and are phantasms, mere ghosts of what once was long ago. (Divination through spirits of the dead is necromancy.)
Attempting divination by optical illusions emanated from long past objects, avoiding your actual self-determined future repeatedly disregarded in favor of musings by a mystical witch doctor is neurotic, idolatrous and fanatical. Astrology is simply an epic lunatic fantasy, and saying so is the ultimate blasphemy for such pagan religionists.
The idea of fate is rooted in the fantasy that some imaginary, ethereal forces determine the course of human events. This is contrary to the ideas that God allows free will to choose or reject Salvation, and that God alone reveals prophecy (a.k.a. Providence). It is also an attempt to counterfeit and replace those ideas, where pantheons of fantasies are the medium of infinitization and not a singular limitless Creator.
Astrology arises from the pagan Chaldean cults of Babylon. We now know Babylon as Iraq. The Tigris-Euphrates Valley is the cradle of human civilization and has never known freedom in all of history. Is it coincidence? Is it coincidence the Neo-Pagan, New Age mystery cults of Leftist politics are so animated in their opposition to bringing freedom and the Judaic principles of justice to Iraq? Is it coincidence that many domestic social issues are being driven by cultic Leftist advocacy of unnatural, phantasmagoric perversity? Is it coincidence that they have such a seething hatred of George W. Bush?
It is no coincidence Islamic pagans hate Israel, Jews, Christians and Western Civilization. The entire basis of Western Civilization is Mosaic Law, something both the Neo-Pagan Left and the pagan Islamic thugs cannot abide and wish to destroy.
The proliferation of psychics, seers, soothsayers, healers, gurus, UFO cults, conspiracy cults, witches, etc., etc., ad nauseum, is a social psychosis, an occulted (or masked) promotion of Leftist propaganda, a social psychosis of Cultural Marxism (that I have identified in the Drama Complex).
Oh, yeah? Well, she turned me into a newt!
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I got better...
Both Yahweh and Yeshua are Zionists without exception or compromise. The Judaic Bible and the Christian Bible are Zionist doctrines, they both say so quite explicitly (I don't have a problem with it).
The entire foundation of Western Civilization rests upon Mosaic Law. Like it or not, the very idea human beings have rights comes from Moses...
“New Age induces a benevolent relaxation that may be disabling in the face of aggression. In a world of terrorism, New Agers can only take to the hills and leave their scriptures in jars at Esalen.”
(Camille Paglia, Cults and Cosmic Consciousness: Religious Vision in the American 1960s, http://www.bu.edu/arion/paglia_cults00.htm)
"Do what thou wilt, an it harm none; for that which you do, for good or for ill, returns to you threefold."
"That's the Wiccan Rede. "What goes around, comes around" is as certain to Wiccans as the law of gravity is to most people."
I have a libertarian streak that goes pretty deep, and "do what thou wilt an ye harm none" had a very strong appeal to me at one point in my life, for the best part of a decade. I moved in several circles over the course of that period in my life, and made many friends and acquaintances. In my exposure, to try to make a blanket statement regarding "Wicca" is comically erroneous, and will lead to a great deal of misunderstanding. There are as many paths as there are practitioners. Radiating up from the individual level, you find certain cohesive traditions.
After close to a decade, though, I began to sense an underlying darkness about it all; I began to feel that I was partaking in something forbidden... which was odd, because the lack of rigid preconceptions was part of the attraction, initially. I slowly found my way out and am to a point that I would describe as being very close to a return to Christianity, although I was not exactly a religious person prior to dabbling in alternative beliefs.
I was set back on the right "path" by a few people, whose beliefs would likley blow a few fuses here on FR. They described themselves as white witches, and considered themselves Christian. I am well aware of the difficulties and the "wrongness" of harboring such beliefs; nearly all Christians would describe such as abomination (and rightly so), but that is how they saw themselves, and likely still do. To make a long story short, certain aspects of biblical accounts and apocryphal accounts of Solomon, as well as Enoch, completely captivated me. The power and the beauty of the belief of my own family - and those who went before them - became much clearer to me, as did the painful realization that I was dangerously close to worshipping elementals, minor demons and other such earth-bound entities, which were and are nothing but tricksters and deceivers.
So, that's how I came full circle in my own beliefs, wacky though it may sound to some. I'm at peace with where I am, and where I'm going.
Regardless of the source, Wicca's version of the Golden Rule is still a pretty noble sentiment.
I won't tire you by trying to distinguish Gardner from Crowley. I do disagree with your implication that all non-Christian religions are equal, though.
Have you ever considered that the story of the blind men going to 'see' the elephant is a parable of man's relationship with God?
Not a fan of Astrology myself. As my wiccan friend says (of the stars and planets) "I don't trust an oracle that says something different every few minutes." And I agree that the belief that fate is somehow fixed or predestined is superstitious drivel.
Divination in general, on the other hand, is quite another matter. All the different tools are simply ways for people to connect with God (or depending on your view, the talent God gave most humans that allows us occasional blurry glimpses of possible future events.)
To me, these glimpses of the future are God's warnings of what will happen if we don't change course.
Not all pagans are "lefties." Many are, though I find it amazing that these hippy-dippy New Agers (some of whom refer to themselves as wiccan) can reconcile casual sex, drug abuse and support for abortion with the religion of the Goddess.
Some wiccans/pagans are very conservative, love the Constitution (especially the First Amendment) and consider the work of a Warrior to be sacred and noble.
Quite a number of folks in the military are Wiccan- apparently a religion where God is seen more as Hunter and Warrior than the Prince of Peace appeals to soldiers.
Re: Islam- isn't there a passage in the Koran that says something along the lines that "people of the book" (Jews and Christians, as fellow children of Abraham) are to be treated with a certian grudging respect, while pagans are to be killed on sight?
That is not necessarily true. Perhaps years ago only those who had been driven from the church turned to paganism, but today in this anything goes world, they don't have to be forced out to find paganism. In fact, in some cases the church is wide open and paganism gets invited in. Some churches don't even recognize godlessness when it is being preached. In other cases, the kids just walk through an open door. They are never told that some things go against the Lord's Word and that they need to stay away from those things for very good reasons.
Today there is such a fascination with things "magic." They don't have to be driven away from Christianity, they can be lured away in a vain attempt to have the "reality" they think they see on TV and in the movies. Just as years ago people started smoking because they saw their favorite movie star with a cigarette, the kids today see spells cast and want to believe it is real.
Not taking these dalliances with witchcraft seriously, some parents think it is just a childhood phase that they will pass through. Some churches do not see the harm in a little witchcraft. They have forgotten what the Lord has said about those who practice such things. Science thinks it is all just a bunch mumbo-jumbo and believes although it is a waste of time, there is nothing harmful in it. Society says live and let live, since all beliefs are of equal value.
These children never learn why witchcraft is dangerous. They've never imagined the harm they are doing to themselves, the rift they are establishing between themselves and God, the encouragement they are giving to the authorities and the powers of the dark world -- the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm. Nor do they see the harm in aligning themselves with anti-Christ wickedness. They are deceived into separation from the One who gives life and few ever learn of the danger.
Before you say 'what would a Christian know,' understand I was not raised as a Christian. By God's grace, I came to know Christ in my thirties. Until then, I was into most things New Age. The only reason I did not get involved with witchcraft was again by God's grace.
Years ago this country followed Christian beliefs, so that even if a parent made mistakes, or if a church had difficulties, the rest of society would give the child a Christian belief system and worldview. Today that is not the case. Without biblical truths they can hold on to, these poor children are falling down, and they have no idea which way is up.
"So, that's how I came full circle in my own beliefs, wacky though it may sound to some. I'm at peace with where I am, and where I'm going."
Doesn't seem wacky to me. The one element conspicuously missing from both "New Age" religion and the watered-down modern versions of Judaism and Christianity is anything resembling spiritual self-defense.
I've had to educate a few children (of all ages) about exactly how dangerous something like a Ouija board (or even a bathroom mirror) can be if you're doing really stupid things with it. The barrier God put between our world and the spirit world is there for a very good reason.
I haven't done anything to persuade them nor do I believe a Church has. That is an excuse, a cop out. We all make our own choices in life. The blame game points back to self.
Is not the source you cited. Lie #1.
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I do disagree with your implication that all non-Christian religions are equal... (Lie #2.)
Psssst... I am an atheist...
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Islam- isn't there a passage in the Koran... (Lie #3, and a big one at that...)
Screw the Koran.
Believe in whatever fairytale you like. By the way, Islam is a pagan religion and a crimminal organization that practices ritual murder...
Like the necromancy of the late Senator Paul Wellstone’s funeral rally, or "funerally" (see the Steven Plaut article, The Rise Of Tikkun Olam Paganism, Arutz Sheva: December 27, 2002, http://www.arutzsheva.com/article.php3?id=1760 in reference to the Wellstone brand of Judaism), the use of Martin Luther King Day, or constantly invoking the "spirit of the ‘60’s," the Left attempts to raise spirits of the dead as a totem for worship. This occurred with respect to Diana, Princess of Wales, following her "tragic" death in 1997.
Consider the seemingly coincidental circumstance that Diana is also the name of a pagan Greek goddess, and idolatry. The figurative deification of Princess Diana and the massive outpouring of public grief are a form of civil worship. The heaping of flowers at Kensington Palace as if it were a shrine, melodramatic eulogizing and the political expressions of how the world should comply with her posthumous intent concerning certain issues is a modern use of idolatry. Royalty magazine, in a special edition, had a large drop quote spanning across two pages: "She needed no royal title… to generate her particular brand of magic." The whole magazine is about pet Leftist political causes mixed in with the pictures and soliloquy about her sainthood. A Golden Calf.
This idolatry also partly played into the modern conflict of pagan vs. Judaic concerning her billionaire playboy lover, Dodi Al Fayed. Although many consider Islamic belief to be of Judaic origin, it is pagan. The crescent symbolizing Islam was also used to symbolize the pagan goddesses (Diana, Isis, etc.) and used by modern neo-pagan nut cases as an icon. The use of the bedrock at the Dome of the Rock and the meteorite at the Kaaba as an excuse to label it an Islamic holy site, is idolatry. The three goddesses, daughters of Allah, are also contrary to the idea that Muslim faith is monotheistic.
Saddam Hussein and the Socialist Ba'ath Party are cult figures. This is a great part of the reason the Left is so frantic and upset by Western military activities in the Middle East. Hussein and his two deceased sons were not at all Muslim. They were considered to be secular political figures, when actually they were extensions of ancient pagan Chaldean and Babylonian cults. They had more than just a similitude to the Amalekite Pharaohs of ancient Egypt that arose after the fall of the Eighteenth Dynasty in the Hyksos invasion. There is a historical relationship to the book of Exodus in the Judaic Bible, where Moses figures most prominently, and a relationship to the current conflict in Israel. Saddam funded Palestinian terror. The pagan Roman occupation created the mythically perceived state of "Palestine" to begin with, specifically disenfranchising the Jews. A Golden Calf.
The Amalekites were nomadic plunderers who also plagued the Hebrews during the forty years of wandering the wilderness described in the Judaic Bible. They were also the progenitors of modern day "Palestinians." (Also, consider the ancillary fact that Yasser Arafat was actually an Egyptian by birth.) The occupation of Egypt after the Alexandrian invasion by the Ptolemic Dynasties through the Roman invasion and occupation of Egypt (where the Queen Cleopatra and Marc Antony, subjects of more Shakespearean tragedy, and legend for their affair in the dire displeasure of the Roman Emperor) are all concretely connected to the historical Pagan conflicts with the Judaic (Judaic includes Christians).
As U.S. Senator, and Democrat presidential primary candidate, Joseph Lieberman has pointed out - - if the Democrat presidential candidate Howard Dean had his way, Saddam Hussein and his two maniacal sons would still be in power, murdering, raping and plundering. Howard Dean had in effect, run on a platform of having Saddam Hussein as his running mate, and so had that other loser Sen. John Kerry.
As well, the opposition by the Leftists to Western military operations in Afghanistan, something once considered previously a subject of serious inquiry by Left leaning feminist groups because of concern for the treatment of women under the Taliban, has been displaced by the neo-pagan New Age mysticism and the 1960s' psychedelic drug culture permeating the political Left. A great source for lot of opium and hashish coming into the West is and/or was from Afghanistan. A Golden Calf.
Think of the Hashashins, from whom we get the English word ‘assassin.’ Who were they? Wondering bands of robbers stoned on hashish, plundering, raping and murdering their way across the desert. Osama Bin Laden and his groups of thugs are just like them, just in the same way Saddam Hussein and his murderous sons roamed around in Iraq. The Taliban in Afghanistan also fit this model quite neatly. Remember the Luxor, Egypt massacre of Western Tourists by terrorists? Is the recent rash of Islamic beheadings ritual murder? Is Islamic terrorism really a murder cult like the Kali cult of Hindu Thuggees?
There is a clear connection between modern neo-paganism and ancient paganism related to Islamic conflict with the Judaic roots of Christendom. A focus on how this is manifested in a modern sense only requires a look at pop-culture icons in entertainment, sports "heroes," and attempts by the Left to use a pseudo-Christian sense of pagan moralistic idolatry to demonize political opposition. I present to you the attack on U.S. Senator Rick Santorum for his comments on sodomy as a useful example. A Sacred Cow.
Another example is Michael Jackson. With the undying support of his "fans" (or fanatics) in the face of his more than questionable activities concerning the abuse of children, they still hold him up as an idol. Jackson, both in his family life as a child and his adult life, is a modern extension of pedagogical pagan pedophilia of previous ages in ancient civilizations. Look at the macabre pagan elements of Jackson's video, Thriller.
Michael Jackson had Nation of Islam thugs as bodyguards escorting him after a court appearance through the throngs of frenzied supporters. Is Jackson their new pharaoh? Nation of Islam is a militant racist cult, that is neither Muslim or based on any traditional religious doctrine. Their leaders, Louis Farrakhan (the numerologist) and Kahlid Abdul Mohammed, are known Jew haters. They also support many illogical and socially subversive Leftist political activities intent on tearing down the structures of Modern Western Civilization and capitalism.
The parallel between the ACLU attack on the public display of the Ten Commandments, the removal of the Ten Commandment monument in the Alabama Supreme Court and the Taliban blowing up ancient Buddhist statues in Afghanistan are most notable comparisons in this respect. It is just like the legal attack on the United States’ Pledge of Allegiance, the demand for removal of a cross on the seal of the city of Los Angeles while ignoring the presence of the pagan goddess depicted next to it.
Contemplate the religious fervor associated with the pro-abortion advocacy. The societal practice of abortion is ritual mass murder upon the altars of conceit dedicated to idolatrous vanities, a collective human sacrifice before pagan idols. It has a similitude to the Teutonic paganism of Adolph Hitler (whose idolatry was the idea of a "master race"). In effect these genocides were/are a mass human sacrifice to those pagan idols. The abortionists, like the National Socialists, incinerate the remains of their victims.
Another source of amazement is the concept of those who hold candlelight vigils (yet another example of religious ceremony) for heinous murderers about to be executed, a large number of whom think it is acceptable to murder an unborn child without the benefit of a trial. Is the "right to life" of one responsible for much murder and mayhem more important than that of a truly innocent unborn child?
The most recent data from the Centers for Disease Control indicate that while 56 percent of all women who obtained legal abortions were white, the abortion rate (the number of abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44 per year) for black women was 2.9 times that of white women. For every thousand black women, 32 have abortions, as compared with 11 for every thousand white women.
Likewise with numbers of abortions per 1,000 births: The abortions/births ratio for white women was 184 abortions per 1,000 live births; for black women, it was 543 abortions per 1,000 births. This means that abortion ratios for black women were 2.8 times greater than for white women. Sadly, black women were also more likely to obtain riskier abortions late in their pregnancies, while white women were significantly more likely than black women to obtain abortions before 16 weeks.
While these data most likely reflect inequality in access to health care, data also indicates that the racial disparities in abortion rates have increased steadily since 1989. In some localities, including Mississippi, Louisiana, Maryland, and Georgia, more than half of all abortions are performed on black women. Black women in New York City and in the entire state of New Jersey receive more than 47 percent of all abortions performed there. (Racist Hitlerian eugenics?)
Comparisons by race are not allowed in California, because the state – unlike any other state – refuses to comply with requirements to report statistics on abortion.
[Pagan gods of secrecy and silence? Egyptians worshipped Harpocrates, the god of silence; for which reason he is always pictured holding a finger on his mouth. Athenians had a statue of brass, which they bowed to; a figure made without a tongue, to declare secrecy thereby. The Romans had a goddess of silence called Angerona, which is pictured like Harpocrates, holding her finger on her mouth, in token of secrecy.]
The idolatry of perversion is another totem of the Left. Pornography is an idolatry of perversion. Much of television, movies, and the literary culture of the Leftist elite in print, are nothing more than a cleverly masked promotion of their Marxist cult (that is to say, masked much like actors of ancient Greek drama). Malakhim Raoth.
Homosexual monogamy advocates are a cult of perversion seeking ceremonious sanctification of preternatural prurient preferences for voluntary deviancy with anatomical function. It is not a logical basis to claim societal privileges; it is religiously psychotic. Homosexual monogamy advocates are desperately pursuing some esoteric absolution to justify their guilt-ridden egos through ceremonious sanctification in marriage. (Is Freudian psychoanalytic theory of sexual stages in psychological development more accurate than accredited?) This has no secular standard; it is an idolatrous fetish pursued with religious fervor, a golden calf.
Perhaps advocates of homosexual monogamy (civil unions) could conclave to enshrine a new phantasmal state religion and consecrate Michael Jackson as its first pope…
Today, "morals" are defined by a quasi-religious pagan philosophy based on esoteric hobgoblins. A greater number of "atheists" and "pagans" adopt the same hackneyed tenets of a false Judaic-Christian ideal (golden calf). They also subscribe to the Judaic fetishism of "sin," but will fight to their death in denial of it. Most of them are so wrapped up in their own polemics that they have become nothing more than pathetic anti-Christians with the same false hypocritical philosophy. They just slap a new label on it hoping nobody will notice - - they replace the idea of "avoiding sin" with "morals."
Plato’s Euthyphro is a great illustration. Socrates advances the argument to Euthyphro that, piety to the gods, who all want conflicting devotions and/or actions from humans, is impossible. (Socrates exposed the pagan esoteric sophistry.)
Likewise, morals are such a construction of idols used by the Left as a rationale for them to demand compliance to their wishes in politics, which most often are a skewed mess of fallacies in logic. Morals are a deceptive replacement for the avoidance of sin. If a person believes in God, it is the conviction of the Holy Spirit that guides them, not the idolatrous vanities of conceited morality constructed by others. Such is the same concerning sectarian dogma and misinterpretations of the Scripture as "God's will."
Under what pagan king did the Jews have any rights at all before Moses? Under what pagan king did anyone have rights subject to a king's whim before Moses? None...
Since you are an atheist, as you have asserted, how do you determine right and wrong? How do you determine objective reality? What do you see as your actual identity?
(I think I'll ping the list to this thread, it's getting pretty interesting.)
Moral Absolutes Ping.
Oh what the heck, one more ping tonight won't hurt anyone. Rather an interesting discussion starting off with Wicca. Couple things:
Someone mentions that Wiccans worship a "Lord and Lady", hinting or stating that the Lord is equivalent to the Supreme Godhead. I doubt that any lord they honor is actually the Supreme Lord of all hosts, whose existence is beyond the created world. But that's my opinion, and I don't feel like doing any research tonight! And since Wicca has nothing equivalent to any set of commandments other than the "do you own thing as long as it doesn't hurt anyone", and every single other monotheist religion in the world is pretty much in agreement with the list of do's and don't's, that's further evidence that Wicca has no connection with Godhead.
Also interesting is the disputed fact that the Wiccan inventor Gerald Gardner was influenced by or friends with Aleister Crowley. L.Ron Hubbard of Scam-entology fame considered Crowley his mentor. Crowley was a pederast and avowed warlock whose practices were quite unsavory.
Final note: worshipping the creation while turning one's back on the Author has, ever since people first started doing it, a very bad idea. Leads to spiritual ruination.
Freepmail me if you want on/off this pinglist.
“Goddess religion and goddess spirituality endeavor to release us from the taboos of sex and sexuality, to untie our hands, freeing us from certain paradigms or ideals that we are taught to accept as ‘normal."
I love how some try to repackage slavery to vices as such a freeing practice.
Needless to say there was a testosterone haze in the pastor's study by the time she was finished. When word got out my friends mother was not invited back to speak to the confirmation class.
but by the same token also she was allowed to remain as an active member of the church.
Bump the Absolute
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