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To: Sensei Ern

I used power in a physical sense.
The definition I used for God is a combination of attributes, none of which is synonymous with another: ominpotent, omnipresent, omni-temporal (eternal) and omniscient. It is this package of attributes that makes God "God" is the Christian sense.

I think that omni-temporal: eternal means the same thing as you said: "has always existed and has always been", or, as I put it myself in my posts "always was and always will be".

I don't think we're in disagreement here. I just think we're stumbling over our varying word usage for what amount to fundamental concepts.

We both appear to agree that there is a God controlling nature, and that God has an opinion of things, a mind, and communicates with men.

I think where we probably start to differ is in the what we consider to be the communications with man from God, and the utility of the Bible in that communication.


445 posted on 09/26/2005 7:45:51 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13

Unless we can agree on the attributes of GOd, we cannot discuss the Bible. Not out of spite, but rather, if we do not agree on Who God is, then we are not talking about the same God.

In my youth, I saw a Benny Hill skit where he was sitting at a table, talking to a stranger.

BH:"I like to do it."
S:"Huh?"
BH:"I like to do it. Everyday."
S:"Oh, uh..."
BH:"DO you like to do it?"
S:"Well, of course. Doesn't everybody?"
BH:"Well, not everybody. Some people just don't move that way, if you know what I mean."
S:"I suppose so..."
BH:"Not that there is anything wrong with that, if they don't like to go that way."
S:"No, of course not. Listen..."
BH:"I like to do it on my back. The feeling when it's over is like heaven."
S(agitated):"Listen, I don't care about your sex life and I wish we no longer discuss it."
BH:"WHAT? I was talking about swimming!"

My point is that if we are to discuss this with a proper understanding on both our parts, and hope to reach a genuine conclusion, rather than just improving our debate skills, we need to be talking about the same God. In all of the attributes I discussed about God, I have not brought into the discussion any reference from the Bible, other than when you asked about certain doctrine, such as how sin entered into the world.

Using the Bible to explain your beliefs would be as useless as using it to explain the beliefs of a muslim or a buddhist. Even though a Buddhist "god" and a muslim's "allah" can have similar attributes as the Judeo-Christian God, Jehovah, they are not the same god.

In order to establish the use of the Bible in talking about how God created everything, we need to agree on Who we understand God is. I believe God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. You have agreed that God is omnipresent, but your idea and my idea of omnipotent are different, and we disagree on the omniscience of God.

Although I am sure about my understanding of God, I am happy to discuss the attributes of God. I enjoy the dialog we are having and it is very enlightening, causing me to seek further my understanding of who God is. You have been very kind in talking with me, and I hope we continue.


446 posted on 09/26/2005 8:10:02 AM PDT by Sensei Ern (Christian, Comedian, Husband,Opa, Dog Owner, former Cat Co-dweller, and all around good guy.)
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