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To: Alamo-Girl; YHAOS; marron; Amos the Prophet; xzins
You're welcome!

Alamo-Girl, I know you have studied St. Justin Martyr. I came across an insight in Voegelin recently that I thought you'd find interesting. Voegelin observed that Justin considered Christianity the "fulfillment" of classical metaphysics. As you know, Justin resonated most strongly with Platonic thought in particular. Voegelin writes:

By absorbing the life of reason in the form of Hellenistic philosophy, the gospel of the early ekklesia tou theou [i.e., church of God] has become the Christianity of the church. If the community of the gospel had not entered the culture of the time by entering its life of reason, it would have remained an obscure sect and probably disappeared from history.... In the conception of Justin the Martyr (d. ca. 165), gospel and philosophy do not face the thinker with a choice of alternatives, nor are they complementary aspects of truth which the thinker would have to weld into the complete truth; in his conception, the Logos of the gospel is rather the same Word of the same God as the logos spermatikos of philosophy, but at a later state of its manifestation in history. The Logos has been operative in the world from its creation; all men who have lived according to reason, whether Greeks (Heraclitus, Socrates, Plato) or barbarians (Abraham, Elias), have in a sense been Christians. Hence, Chrisitianity is not an alternative to philosophy, it is philosophy itself in its state of perfection; the history of the Logos comes to its fulfillment through the incarnation of the Word in Christ. To Justin, the difference between gospel and philosophy is a matter of successive stages in the history of reason. ("The Gospel and Culture," The Collected Works of Eric Voegelin, Vol. 12, p. 173.)

140 posted on 09/25/2005 11:33:12 AM PDT by betty boop (Nature loves to hide. -- Heraclitusuote)
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To: betty boop

Betty,
Thank you for this most important notation. By Voegelin's reasoning all of culture, but especially Western culture is the very expression of Christian thought. As to discussions of ID or of the establishment clause in our Constitution, neither science nor our government have the ability to stand on their own independent from Christian thought.
If one accepts the premise that there is a unity of truth in creation - and not an infinite variety of subjectivity - Christianity stands at the apex of that truth.
Is this to say that all other religions are false? Certainly not, simply less evolved. ;)


143 posted on 09/25/2005 12:06:08 PM PDT by Louis Foxwell (THIS IS WAR AND I MEAN TO WIN IT.)
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To: betty boop
Wow! What a fascinating excerpt from Voegelin! Thank you so much for sharing it!

Sometimes when I am met with people who shudder at the false notion that philosophy is some kind of alternative to faith in Christ, I mention the following historical facts:

1. The Jewish people were not “Hellenized” until after Alexander the Great conquered the known world.

2. Alexander was a student of Aristotle who was a student of Plato – the greatest Greek philosopher of all time, IMHO.

3. The Essene community was formed to avoid the Hellenization of Jews.

4. Because of the Essene community at Qumran, we now have the Dead Sea Scrolls which materially affirm the faithfulness and antiquity of both Scripture recognized by the Jewish religious authorities and other ancient texts, including Enoch which speaks directly of the “Elect One” – Jesus Christ. (That btw is why the book was disfavored by the Jews. Even though it is referenced directly in the New Testament (e.g. Jude) - it was later disfavored in the church because it speaks of both the good and evil angelic beings.)

5. Daniel (600 BC) prophesied that Alexander would conquer the known world.

6. According to Josephus, after Alexander conquered Gaza, he went up to Jerusalem and was shown the prophesy from Daniel 18 by Juddua the high priest whereupon he extended particular kindness to the Jewish people.

7. Alexander “normalized” the Greek language so that people could communicate better – so not only did they have a common language, but the philosophies of Plato (et al) were proliferated – both of which helped to spread the Gospel to the Gentiles.

Seems to me that all of this is an example of God working everything together to the good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

Justin Martyr – who studied under a number of the schools of philosophy but was drawn most strongly to Platonism before becoming Christian – observed that Plato had studied Judaism in Egypt and that he therefore, possibly unwittingly, made certain references to Christ.

The First Apology of Justin

Chapter LX.-Plato's Doctrine of the Cross.

And the physiological discussion122 concerning the Son of God in the Timoeus of Plato, where he says, "He placed him crosswise123 in the universe," he borrowed in like manner from Moses; for in the writings of Moses it is related how at that time, when the Israelites went out of Egypt and were in the wilderness, they fell in with poisonous beasts, both vipers and asps, and every kind of serpent, which slew the people; and that Moses, by the inspiration and influence of God, took brass, and made it into the figure of a cross, and set it in the holy tabernacle, and said to the people, "If ye look to this figure, and believe, ye shall be saved thereby."124 And when this was done, it is recorded that the serpents died, and it is handed down that the people thus escaped death. Which things Plato reading, and not accurately understanding, and not apprehending that it was the figure of the cross, but taking it to be a placing crosswise, he said that the power next to the first God was placed crosswise in the universe. And as to his speaking of a third, he did this because he read, as we said above, that which was spoken by Moses, "that the Spirit of God moved over the waters." For he gives the second place to the Logos which is with God, who he said was placed crosswise in the universe; and the third place to the Spirit who was said to be borne upon the water, saying, "And the third around the third."125 And hear how the Spirit of prophecy signified through Moses that there should be a conflagration. He spoke thus: "Everlasting fire shall descend, and shall devour to the pit beneath."126 It is not, then, that we hold the same opinions as others, but that all speak in imitation of ours. Among us these things can be heard and learned from persons who do not even know the forms of the letters, who are uneducated and barbarous in speech, though wise and believing in mind; some, indeed, even maimed and deprived of eyesight; so that you may understand that these things are not the effect of human wisdom, but are uttered by the power of God.


150 posted on 09/25/2005 2:12:27 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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