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To: TomasUSMC

"Can any state committed to political Islam as it ruling ideology ever be a reliable U.S. ally..."

No. I do understand your reasoning and agree 100% in that it is not possible for two totally different cultural and political opposites to become true allies. I would never suggest that it is possible. History shows otherwise. And common sense would/should lead to the same conclusions.

What we can do and I believe is being attempted, is for enough of their peoples to see there is another world beyond Islam and the deep rooted stifling ways of their basic culture. But it would appear we have little option but to try to pursuade at a governmental level these countries to not continue keeping their peoples in bondage so to speak that leads to any crack pot using them for personal gain, or otherwise. As you are well aware, Islam is used to control the populace, it is the perfect tool, no different then communisim. The power is held by the monarchy, tribal family in power, to keep the wealth in their pockets at the expense of the masses. In neither system, is free will, the attributes of self worth and self importance applied. So it is easy to control the masses. In both cases we find those systems where gained by force and cunning. Only if those governments/monarchies are forced to allow a democratic system of government where the people have some say in how their lives are governed, via. the ballot box, and participation in political parties of their choice, are allowed to spring forth, will these regions ever have the option of slowly moving toward a more westernized form of living, which as we understand and can see with our very eyes is the prefered way for humans to live. Example: camel humper that really hates life since it has nothing good to offer them, only continued heartache, and living in poverty with no goals of self improvment. Surely contradictory to what our Judeo/Christian heritage makes possible.
So what option do we have but to at least attempt to bring them hope of a better future and in the process make friends. I don't think I am viewing the situation through rose colored glasses. Sure, I could write reams of stuff on how fuck*d up they are in their totality, like I sometimes bring up in posts, the stage was set when Ismael and Hagar where booted out of the tribe and made to go on their own.
Another thing we should keep in mind, is if we do not keep our fingers in the ME, then the Russians will manipulate the scene to their advantage. I make no bones about this being a big part of the ME equation for many years. So much we often have to leave completly out in these short dialogs shared on web sites. Bottom line is if as we see happening in Iraq a democratic government that will represent all the peoples for their betterment is set up and functional, then surely this will help champion the cause for the ME to consider the better option. And in so doing, perhaps we shall find an ME and countries in Africa and elsewhere see it is better to embrace the fine points of westernized democratic institutions then to leave in the dark ages, and continue to have nothing but strife. It would be a mistake not to recognize that many people in the ME do not want the yoke of radical forms of Islam to control their lives. And many cry for what we have in the west. They see the difference in living in a stone age verse what they could have, for both themselves as well as their children. And in this spirit of writing I rest my case. Perhaps this is all a total pipe dream. Let me leave you with the following.
Would you rather see a ME simmering in continued hate and frustration over how the governments in line with the religion control the peoples, and allow the formation of hate for America to continue that leads toward terrorism, and a possible re-institution of real control by Russia, or would you prefer they be given the chance and incentives to start a new? What is happening in Iraq may end up becoming a model that is workable for ME stability. If it works out, where freedom to practice a given form of Islam or other religion is permitted, their laws end up becoming a mix of westernized concepts which embrace a bit of common law etc., and they can rebuild their terribly torn down infrastructure caused by Saddam, and a acknowledgment on their part it is good to do business with the US, and that they must show publically and in private that terrorism must be stamped out, then perhaps our sacrifices will be shown to have been worth the effort. We certainly cannot hide in our hole and think the rest of the world is going to behave itself and not allow dictatorships to flourish and breed terrorist that strike at any entity that does not fit their ideology.


19 posted on 09/18/2005 11:26:12 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned)
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To: Marine_Uncle

Welcome to the new Iran, pronounced Iraq.

The Iraqi Mullahs of Sistani will compose the mysterious "Supreme Judiciary Council" that is supposed to nominate the members of the supreme court, according to article 89. The constitution does not say how this supreme judiciary council is selected, how many members it has, or how long they will serve. It isn't even clear why such a court needs to exist — is this a council of guardians in disguise, accountable to no one, but able to control the laws of land?

Article (89): The Supreme Judiciary Council will exercise the following powers:

1st - administering and supervising the federal judiciary system.

2nd - nominating the head and members of the Supreme Federal Court and

presenting their names to parliament for endorsement.

3rd - nominating the head of the Federal Cassation Court, the chief

prosecutor and the head of the Judiciary Inspection Department, and

presenting them to parliament for approval.

4th - proposing the annual budget for the federal judiciary system and

presenting it to parliament for approval.

The Prime Minister of Iraq is going to implement Sharia Law:
....Iraq's Prime Minister is Ibrahim al-Jaafari....
Asked if his government would institute Islamic Shari'a law, al-Jaafari replied: "Yes … that is only natural in a country that is populated mainly by Muslims."

"This is a new chapter in relations with Iraq," enthused Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref during al-Jaafari's visit. Agha Panayi, an Iranian intelligence official, has offered a similarly enthusiastic assessment: "Throughout Iraq, the people we supported are in power."

This is not what we are fighting for. It is the opposite. They may have to rename this Operation Islamic Slavery.

Hopefully the constitution will not pass and we will have more time to change this into a real constitution of real freedom instead of an Islamist Shiite Sharia Iranian type government.

Instead of fighting like WW2 we are fighting our enemies war. Iran must be smiling to see U.S. troops fighting to support a constitution that states "No Law shall Contradict Islam." If we allow this Islamist Constitution we will just have to come back and fight Iran AND Iraq later. Better to take Iran out now and with that show the moslems that their god is a worthless piece of dead nothing.

No blood for Islam. Take Iran and Syria out NOW.


20 posted on 09/18/2005 9:11:19 PM PDT by TomasUSMC (FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.)
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