Posted on 09/15/2005 7:03:21 AM PDT by groanup
How is housing 'consumed', especially if it increases in value?
He's not MY expert and I doubt that you have any proof that he was paid as you claim. In addition, all he said was that for the purposess of his model he assumed that wage were removed. That's not at all the same as saying that they will be taxed undet the FairTax. The main focus of his projection was, after all, the longer range economic effects on the economy and there is nothing in his model at all that shows he concluded in the model that wages were reduced or held at present net levels.
They could just as easily have been raised to 100% of gross pay which if you'd stop to think about it is by far the most likely result due to outside influences on the employer if for no other reason. Even so, it is pretty clear that with the removal on the business tax costs that prices will decline with the advent of the FairTax. The only unknown is how much. My bet is in the 15% or greater range for price reduction. We'll have to wait and see.
I don't get to follow these threads during my workday..
But I got to thinking about the fact that Under the Fair Tax system.. the cost of a stamp would raise to about 9-11 cents per stamp
28%= 9 cents
29%= 10 cents
30%= 11 cents
Remember the Postal System is a Service.
I just thought it was interesting when you get to knocking around the costs of things and services of what things would cost if the system as Neal boasts is implemented.
Well, here is a fairtax powerpoint presentation located on a fairtax website which includes background information on the fairtax. They clearly say that Jorgenson was funded by AFFT.
http://www.mnfairtax.org/resrcs/pp_pres.ppt#1
Not - that's NOT what it says at all. It says he was a participant in economic research. It doesn't say he was paid. You'll have to find his cancelled check (or something akin to that) to make such a claim and have it accepted.
Also, you'll notice that stated is a range of reduced prices (from income tax removal) of from 18-28% and NOT the 23% that has been so widely misused by FairTax opponents.
A nice ppt presentation - which I'd seen earlier, but thanks.
ROTFLOL....you can't be for real? It's a well established fact that Jorgenson work was paid for by AFFT. The link provided is more than adequate proof. A cancelled check? LOL, you are a piece of work.
28%= 9 cents
29%= 10 cents
30%= 11 cents
Remember the Postal System is a Service
First I believe the correct percentage you were looking for was %23. Also, the cost of doing business will go down, admittedly for some more than others.
As for the U.S.P.S., I assume they get tax breaks as is, (I may be wrong about that), I'm sure they can cut spending since I used to sell them $100s of dollars of pizza, and we as postal customers picked up the tab!
So I'll give ya a penny or 2 on a stamp, by the way I thought it would be a VERY GOOD idea if I posted a link to the bill since I didn't see one anywhere else on the forum, so here it is. Its pretty straight forward considering what it is.
BUT.....
Per the WTO, ANY system of taxation which uses income as the base is not eligible for border adjustment. A flat tax would not be eligible for border adjustment....and our goods will still be hamstrung in the global market.
We must embrace a system of taxation which IS border adjustable if we EVER want to regain our economic strength and maintain our standard of living. Any thing else is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Whose "well established fact"?? Yours? Show me the money.
Thanks for the link to HR25 - we sometimes forget to post it assuming that everyone knows how to find it (which of course isn't true).
Actually, it's quite likely that postal rates wouldn't change at all since prices for the many things the USPS buys (including the $100s of $ of pizza before the FairTax tax) will decline and then be raised back by the sales tax to about where they are now.
OK, here's the 'money', Money Magazine:
In an eight-year-old study paid for by AFFT, Harvard economist Dale Jorgenson noted that because the taxes paid by everyone in the chain of production are embedded in the cost of goods, prices could decline an average of 20 percent if all those taxes were scrapped.
Not that this is an important point, because there are hundreds of links which show fairtaxers quote Dr. Jorgenson as the main source for the embedded tax claims, including Linder and Boortz and fairtax.org. The extent of your denial is unbelievable. You really can't be serioius, at least I hope for your sake you are not.
Nice of you to be concerned. That's not too helpful though since it is no better anecdotal information than what you offer. The reporter writing the article has a clear bias against the FairTax and its just as likely his "sourece" is Brookings Institute.
Your claiming that to be the case certainly doesn't make it true. I'm after definitive proof - not hearsay from a questionable reporter. You'll have to do better than that.
"Nothing at all. Which is why I am commenting on this topic."
Your objection seems to be that we shouldn't pass this bill because it will lead to both types of taxes being imposed on us. The reality is that nothing prevents this from happening today, yet the bills language restricts the ability to have both an income and sales tax at the federal level. You would have more protection from a two system tax than you have today.
"(f) FINDINGS RELATING TO REPEAL OF PRESENT FEDERAL TAX SYSTEM- Congress further finds that the 16th amendment to the United States Constitution should be repealed.
TITLE I--REPEAL OF THE INCOME TAX, PAYROLL TAXES, AND ESTATE AND GIFT TAXES
SEC. 101. INCOME TAXES REPEALED.
Subtitle A of title 26 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to income taxes and self-employment taxes) is repealed.
SEC. 102. PAYROLL TAXES REPEALED.
(a) IN GENERAL- Subtitle C of title 26 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to payroll taxes and withholding of income taxes) is repealed.
(b) FUNDING OF SOCIAL SECURITY- For funding of the Social Security Trust Funds from general revenue, see section 201 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 401).
SEC. 103. ESTATE AND GIFT TAXES REPEALED. Subtitle B of title 26 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to estate and gift taxes) is repealed."
That sure brings up lots of questions:
What is a border adjustment? What does the WTO have to do with it? What if we have a so-called 'fairtax' and Canada or Mexico doesn't? Isn't the 23% difference enough to kill off our retail sales close to our border?
Also, how does this 'fairtax' treat IRAs which have already paid tax?
"Your fair tax has yet to edited in a tax committee. You guys are dreaming if you think that your law will remain pure."
I see. So the solution to the mess that we have for a tax system is to just accept whatever congress hands down to us. After all, they are the rulers and we are the subjects, right?
“I discussed the importance of abolishing the income tax because of its tendency to form a habit of servility in the souls of a people that accept it. Servility of soul is bad not only in itself, it is also an open door through which will soon walk the abuses of ambitious government power. Leaders who find themselves with governmental power over a servile people will be quick to conclude that such a people exist to serve them.”
Alan Keyes “The Power of the Purse”, WorldNet Daily, August 27,1999
"Well, here is a fairtax powerpoint presentation located on a fairtax website which includes background information on the fairtax. They clearly say that Jorgenson was funded by AFFT."
I must have missed that part. Page 3 says that he was an "Economic Research Participant". I don't see any indication with respect to remuneration. Can you cite the page number where I can find that?
Gee, let's see, page 2 talks about funding research done by colleges and page 3 identifies those who participated. I know it is a difficult concept having to relate ideas from one slide to the next, but I thought maybe you were up to the task. I thought wrong.
If you think the income tax hurts the fruits of your labor (income), then the 'fairtax' will hurt the source of your strength (food).
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