Fox News Just Said Federal Judge says Pledge "Un-Constitutional"

[JeffAtlanta]

Like I said, keep it in the context of 'endowed by our creator', 'so help me God', 'In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity --(guess which US treaty that on is in)', and it's consistent with the religious beliefs of the Founders.

Those examples make sense and will actually give you some traction. Using a date system to convey a religious belief dilutes your argument.

[CaptainKeyword]

pay no attention to the little man in the black robe behind the curtain.

[Deut28]

Jeff,

'Year of our Lord' actually says more about religion than 'so help me God'.

The former can only be traced to Christianity, no other religion uses the combination of that phrase and year number scheme.

'So help me God' could be uttered without religious conflict by any number of religions.

Like I said, when you view the 'year of our Lord' in the context of the time and people, it makes perfect sense as a statement that the writers were a religious people.

Otherwise the phrase has absolutely no meaning or purpose for being in the document.

[JeffAtlanta]

Like I said, when you view the 'year of our Lord' in the context of the time and people, it makes perfect sense as a statement that the writers were a religious people.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to prove. No one is doubting that Christianity was by far the dominant religion in the colonies. That has never been disputed.

Is is debatable how religious the framers were, but it is also irrelevant - very religious people can create nonreligious works.

If the framers wanted to create a religion based document then they would have been more overt with it. Those guys were pretty smart and they wouldn't have had to sneak it in the back door with little nuggets here and there.

If Christianity was the basis of the document, they would have found ways to make it much more obvious.

[Deut28]

Jeff,

The point is that the Constitution reflects the religious beliefs of the Founders, along with their other documents and writings.

You're absolutely correct that they were very smart, and being very smart they knew the religious connotations carried by the phrase and inserted it anyway.

As I've said repeatedly, the phrase only has meaning as a religious phrase, and is otherwise not needed. The dating of oter key documents shows exactly how unimportant 'formal dating' was to the Founders.

I don't think the Constitution is a religious document, as I've said before it had no need to be. While it is not a religious document, it does reflect the religious nature of the people it was designed to govern.

That's a point that has been ignored for the past 70 or so years. The Constitution is only viable as a governing tool if the people it is governing are a religious people. It was not designed to govern non-religious people.

As John Jay so correctly pointed out: "This nation was founded upon Christian principles, and can only be best served when Christians hold office." -- 10/12/1816