Posted on 09/13/2005 3:39:58 PM PDT by IonImplantGuru
Groton — The collision between the USS Philadelphia and a Turkish merchant ship in the Persian Gulf this week left the two ships entangled, unable to separate for more than an hour, Navy sources said.
In addition, a preliminary assessment of the damage has shown that it is more extensive than indicated earlier and that some major repairs could be necessary.
The worst damage includes a rather large hole in the rudder, scoring on at least one propeller blade, damage to a periscope and damage to the fairwater planes, the large fins on the sail of the submarine that help it maintain depth control when it is submerged, the sources said.
There is a fairly long list of other damage as well, the sources said. The hull has a small dent, the housing for the towed sonar array was crumpled, some sound-absorbing tiles were ripped up and a number of scrapes were left along the length of the ship.
The Philadelphia has been modified to carry a dry-deck shelter used by Special Forces to exit the submarine with their gear while the boat is submerged. It was not on board at the time, but the mounting gear was damaged in the collision, so the accident could have been more serious had it been in place, the sources said.
A Navy spokesman in Washington, D.C., referred questions about the accident to the Fifth Fleet office in Bahrain, where officials were unavailable for comment late Friday because of the time difference.
Sources have said the 625-foot, 52,000-ton freighter M/V Yaso Aysen was coming up behind the submarine about 30 miles off the Bahrain coast at 2 a.m. Monday when it apparently ran right up over the back of the ship, scraping along the starboard side of the hull.
The freighter sustained a rip in its hull about 100 feet long, and was in a shipyard in Bahrain awaiting repairs this week. The submarine, 360 feet long and barely one-eighth the displacement of the Aysen, was on its way to Bahrain for a scheduled port call and continued there under its own power. It is in a shipyard undergoing a damage assessment, officials have said.
The Navy is investigating the accident, and has taken no action against anyone on the Philadelphia. The service has said it cannot comment on damages until an initial assessment is completed.
Philadelphia left Groton last spring for a six-month mission in the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf, and was in the final weeks of the deployment at the time of the accident.
Navy officials have been unable to say how long Philadelphia might be in the Bahrain shipyard, or where any repairs might be done.
I'm guessing that there aren't a lot of available spook-boats waiting to take its place.
Earl's body shop should fix 'em up good.
Well I guess this IS the first time a sub has been run over by a merchant since WWII rammings.
Can the Navy hold the run-over-ee as liable as the run-over-er (if the sub can't dive out of danger because of the shallow waterr ule.
Shouldn't the CO have dove anyway? At PD already?
From now on it will always pull to the left.
I know my truck always did.
CO should have put a torpedo in him.
The sub was the stand-on vessel, being overtaken if this give-way vessel was more than 22.5 degrees abaft the beam. Was the sub on the surface displaying proper lights? (0200 time) International rules apply here. What was the visibility? Was rule 19 in effect?
Yet no where in the rules does it encourage the stand-on vessel to allow a collision to occur, just because they are the stand-on vessel. The giveway vessel always has the mother-load share of the burden to react in several levels of action, depending on the particular triggers of WX, geometries, plot, visual bearings, both ships characteristics, the heirarchy, subtle and obvious behaviors, any radio comms, etc., if it becomes apparent that the stand-on vessel is not taking appropriate action.
Been teaching this for the USCG in their simulators for 14 years, after I did my 20.
I see this as another case I'd like to see drawn up and installed in the simulators. The ensuing debrief discussions can get quite lively. Not nearly enough facts presented in any articles, anywhere, to begin to judge anyone at fault.
Regardless, in every case, both parties will have a piece of the "at-fault pie" You just always want your piece to be very, very small.
But how in the heck does the skipper of the sub NOT know that they have a ship bearing down on them? All ahead full, come left x number of degrees. sheesh. (Maybe it was a stealth merchant ship)
The captain probably needs to polish up his resume.
Arrrgh, Matey. What language ye be talkin'?
Do you really think so? I doubt they had a radar reflector up either.
Four words. The skipper is toast.
Since the Philadelphia is the second oldest Los Angeles Class boat out there, she may end up being scrapped. Some of the newer boats have been. Just more work for the Jimmy Carter.
The collision occurred at 0230 on a moonless night just outside of Bahrain, in what I assume were close quarters. An earlier article by the same reporter (respected in the Submarine community, BTW) said Philly was in the unenviable position of being the 'privileged' vessel because she was being overtaken by the Turk, thus restricting Philly's ability to maneuver. IOW, Philly had the right of way ... dead right, as the olde saw has it.
At night, an overtaking ship can only see the other guy's stern light, so without view of the other guy's sidelights there's little info on 'target's' precise heading, etc. It would not shock me to find out the Turk's radar was inop, or even that there was no lookout posted. Even if a lookout was posted, a surfaced sub would be nearly invisible; moonless night, lots of lights on horizon from Bahrain as confusion factors.
Question for other sub guys, particularly NAV folks: where is the stern light on modern boats located - on the sail, or on the rudder? I remember a white light on top of the rudder back in my days
Not necessarily, though I won't deny it's highly likely. We don't have ALL the facts; the inevitable board of inquiry will have all the facts.
I have had the experience of being subjected to an attempt to run me down by a larger vessel. Was it intentional? I don't know, but it sure seemed like it at the time! I took evasive action and the GD other ship changed course to intersect mine. I flashed a light, attempted to contact on ship-ship VHF ... nada for a response. I'm here to tell the tale, so I obviously survived - by making a last minute zig when I was close enough to where he couldn't see me under his bow.
Should a captain be canned because another vessel made an insane and unexpected move? I think not, but we'll both see how events turn out, eh?
Manmy questions from a land-lubber:
Doesn't the sub have a rear-view mirror? (smile)
Seriously, what about the radar, why did they not pick this Turk beast coming up behind them?
Or this a serious weakness the enemy could exploit?
Also, do they keep computer records on all the activity, like a 'black box' you find on airplanes, to determine what was happening before the crash?
I imagine the commander will lose his job over this, no matter how little of the guilt he bears?
Is it true the navy personnel do not like to serve on a ship/submarine that has been in a collision, or is that only on the really major collisions?
Many questions from a land-lubber:
Doesn't the sub have a rear-view mirror? (smile)
Seriously, what about the radar, why did they not pick this Turk beast coming up behind them?
Or this a serious weakness the enemy could exploit?
Also, do they keep computer records on all the activity, like a 'black box' you find on airplanes, to determine what was happening before the crash?
I imagine the commander will lose his job over this, no matter how little of the guilt he bears?
Is it true the navy personnel do not like to serve on a ship/submarine that has been in a collision, or is that only on the really major collisions?
It's a wonderful museum... the displays are in a chronological order of the history of subs, and item descriptions are at most a paragraph or two, which makes them easy to read (more is not necessarily better in case displays IMO). I was disappointed, however, that "Vote Strom Thurmond" memorabilia was missing from the Hunley display. :-]
If anyone here is planning a trip to the Arizona Memorial and/or Missouri, do yourself a big favor and allow time for the Bowfin and sub museum (same location, next to the Arizona memorial).
What is it with the USS Philadelphia & muslims?
Didn't something similar happen 200 years ago?
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