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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I generally stay off these evo threads. The vitriol here makes the religion forum look almost quaint.

I hope nothing in my posting to you on Calvin came across as 'vitriol;' if it did, I sincerely apologise, that was not my intention.

You have raised many points via these links, some new to me, some I'd like to challenge when time permits. The sources you provided, I will note, do strike me as short on objectivity and tending to the panegyric. That Calvinism was part of the intellectual heritage of the American colonists is certainly not disputed, but I would argue that still more contemporary ideals of the Enlightment were of greater moment. But our views here are likely to differ over matters of degree than kind, I suspect

I did note in my posting that I did not doubt Calvin was probably motivated by noble intentions; but did not elaborate my view that this can only be part of our assessment. It can be argued, though not by me, that Marx also had 'noble intentions' (the amelioration of poverty among the people displaced by the Industrial Revolution), but the most appalling tyrannical regimes and brutal, institutionalised forms of human degradation and misery arose from Marxist doctrines.

But it is folly to argue from 'intentions,' which we cannot properly know. Even if we grant some desirable features of the Genevan model--it nonetheless remains a powerful instance of the perils of theocracy and the evils which they can inflict.

And Calvin really cannot be held blameless in the murder (no other word will do) of Servetus, which he deemed necessary on politcal as much as religious grounds

720 posted on 09/14/2005 2:00:01 PM PDT by SeaLion ("Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man" -- Thomas Paine)
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To: SeaLion; Diamond; bluepistolero; Elsie; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
...contemporary ideals of the Enlightment were of greater moment.

More's the pity.

CALVINISM IN HISTORY
by Lorraine Boettner (a guy)

...the perils of theocracy

See, this is what I don't understand. What's so perilous about a nation guided by God, obedient to His word and productive according to His will?

Yeah, that's a real fright-fest. God save us from Himself.

732 posted on 09/14/2005 2:40:44 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (Steven Wright: "So what's the speed of dark?")
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To: SeaLion
And Calvin really cannot be held blameless in the murder (no other word will do) of Servetus

Do you call capital punishment "murder?"

745 posted on 09/14/2005 3:17:26 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray)
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