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We had to kill our patients
The Daily Mail ^ | 09/11/2005 | CAROLINE GRAHAM and JO KNOWSLEY

Posted on 09/11/2005 2:36:06 PM PDT by kenth

click here to read article


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To: Old Professer

...."There's this small problem of voltage drop over distance."...

I don't understand your comment.

All hospitals need to have emergency power!
The choice is whether to locate the generator next to the parking lot, or whether to locate it on a steel structure next to the second floor.

What does voltage drop have to do with locating an "emergency" generator below sea level.


281 posted on 09/12/2005 1:08:22 PM PDT by aShepard
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To: Hildy

Don't be ridiculous. There was another choice. Stay with the patients and take care of them. Did you read the article?


282 posted on 09/12/2005 1:08:38 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: aShepard

Describe for me the structure in question and where the EG should have been.


283 posted on 09/12/2005 1:09:50 PM PDT by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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To: Salvey

Why? Military doctors have been doing this kind of thing for the last couple of centuries.


284 posted on 09/12/2005 1:10:42 PM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: kenth
"...Doctors working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans killed critically ill patients rather than leaving them to die in agony as they evacuated hospitals...

BullCrap! First sentence was enough for me.

285 posted on 09/12/2005 1:12:33 PM PDT by devane617
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To: Old Professer

With suitably sized conductors, that will be a non problem. If the engineers really did choose that location so they could skimp on conductor size, they deserve dunce awards.


286 posted on 09/12/2005 1:13:47 PM PDT by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: The Red Zone

I was in charge of the engine maintenance on all the standby generators at the Wadsworth Medical Center West Los Angeles, California for a number of years; the gen sets have to be close to the power transformers for the switchgear to function reliably and for testing purposes and certification log-keeping.

Since so much of New Orleans is below sea level one might have to locate backup power units at some secure, elevated distance from the utility-installed transformers and there is where you run into problems.

If neither of you knows exactly the layout, arrangement and capacity of this hospital then you will not be able to answer any further questions on the subject.


287 posted on 09/12/2005 1:21:03 PM PDT by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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To: kenth

What an ABSOLUTE hot steaming chest high load of male bovine excrement.


288 posted on 09/12/2005 1:25:08 PM PDT by porkchops 4 mahound (The Daily Mail, there's an objective source for you. /sarcasm)
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To: Old Professer

you, not i, said that locating the generators high above flood level posed a problem with voltage drop.

i know not only how to spell eclectrical injuneer, i is one. graduated second in class.

ir drop, that is a function of conductor size as well as length.

inductance and capacitance issues, are a non problem at distances of several dozen feet. the 240 volt center tapped drops from utility pole pigs to houses and buildings are often longer than that.


289 posted on 09/12/2005 1:38:35 PM PDT by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: BykrBayb

So you wanted Dr.'s and nurses to put their own lives in jeopardy?


290 posted on 09/12/2005 1:45:49 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: Hildy

The patient comes first. Doctors should not murder their patients. I don't expect you to understand that, but you should be aware of the fact that most people do.


291 posted on 09/12/2005 1:49:30 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: The Red Zone

SCE required the xfmrs and gensets be tied together in the original design at VAWMC; while not below sea level the UB was low enough that minor flooding could have been a problem.

As I said, if you originally suggested that the gensets be above flooding without taking into account the necessary wiring to the hospital itself then where would you have located them?

I'm rather certain that the power supply for the total flooded area was compromised.


292 posted on 09/12/2005 1:50:10 PM PDT by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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To: BykrBayb

There was no electricity, no water...I've tried up to now to have a conversation with you, but you are just the battiest person on FR. Bar none.


293 posted on 09/12/2005 1:51:44 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: Old Professer

in a penthouse on the roof?


294 posted on 09/12/2005 1:54:08 PM PDT by The Red Zone (Florida, the sun-shame state, and Illinois the chicken injun.)
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To: Old Professer
If neither of you knows exactly the layout, arrangement and capacity of this hospital then you will not be able to answer any further questions on the subject.

LOL! Not knowing information never stops a Freepers from answering a question with complete surety!

295 posted on 09/12/2005 1:54:17 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: Old Professer

...."Describe for me the structure in question and where the EG should have been."...

Geez, I don't know. Maybe you locate the gen set and its fuel tank next to where the power comes into the building, at about utility pole height. Say you reinforce an area of the floor inside the building, place your genset on steel sleepers, and exhaust out the side of the wall. Noisy? who cares, it's for when you need to keep the patients alive.
Don't like the noise, erect a 10 by 10 or so steel structure on the outside of the building, on steel piers driven into the ground, and place your equipment on top of a platform .

Not rocket science, parking garages are built like this every week.


296 posted on 09/12/2005 1:58:16 PM PDT by aShepard
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To: Hildy

Fine, it was tough. You still don't kill the weakest members of the group. Especially when you're the one in charge of their well-being. Murder is wrong. Why can't you understand that simple little concept? It's not rocket science. Murder is wrong. Plain and simple.


297 posted on 09/12/2005 1:58:16 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: BykrBayb

You call it murder...I call it compassion. I doubt this story anyway, but it is an interesting debate.


298 posted on 09/12/2005 2:02:12 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: BykrBayb

You call it murder...I call it compassion. I doubt this story anyway, but it is an interesting debate.


299 posted on 09/12/2005 2:02:16 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: Hildy

I'm sure the story is bogus, but "compassionate" murder does happen. Unfortunately, you're not the only one with situational ethics. Some doctors don't think there's anything wrong with forced euthanasia, "for the patient's own good."


300 posted on 09/12/2005 2:07:00 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri <strike>Schiavo</strike> Schindler - www.terrisfight.org)
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