Lincoln holiday on its way out (West Virginia)

West Virginia Gazette Mail ^ | 9-8-2005 | Phil Kabler

[M. Espinola]

"So, Mr. Espinola, based on your passionate statements and your captioned pictorial post of modern day Klansman, are you suggesting that I am a racist because I fly a Confederate Battle flag on my property?"

No, (unless it's true?), the point was to put to rest once and for all the endless neo-confederate propaganda, what old Stand & a few others refuse to term "Dixie" "revisionism" i.e. 'the repetitive royal con job' in repeatedly stating "the KKK only flies American flag", which they did, marching around when Woodrow Wilson was in the White House!

The post was specifically directed to the fist name in the reply heading. In terms of you or others being racists based on flying the rebel flag, the baloney about "all the damnyankees are card carrying pinkos" would fall under the heading "bigot" unless "damnyankees" are viewed as a race by "Lost Causers".

"BTW, I'd be willing to bet that most of those pictures that you posted were taken north of the Mason/Dixon line.

I would say it's probably 50 - 50 since southern Indiana, Ohio, and Illinois are altra-rural & boring. That's virtual ground for hate groups. During the Civil War the geographic area mentioned produced so-called "copperhead" areas" held there share of confederate collaborators based on the slavery issue plus the fact the overwhelming majority were Democrats at adds with the GOP White House and Congressional leadership. "I saw a documentary on the History Channel this week about the Klan and the FBI in the 50's and N's."

I saw the same one and felt it was pretty representation of the general situation in the Deep South. "Using an estimated population of 25 million people for the 11 states of the former Confederacy, that means that only 0.00004 percent of the Southern population were Klan members."

This is imposable to determine, since membership in the Klan was secret, due to the fact it's members and fellow travelers of which far exceeded card carrying members, were deeply involved in committed vial acts of murder, and terrorism. Fire bombing a church resulting in burning to death little children, small girls no less, involved in Bible classes, is one of the most barbaric acts one could imagine. The hate possessed butchers involved in such heinous crimes were cruel, soulless, savage animals. Maybe raging demoniacs fits far better.

Think of the act, to burn down a place where people, other Americans are worshiping G-d, singing & praying "Now to hear you South haters and bashers, we were all running around in hoods, burning crosses, hanging black men and bombing churches."

Since speaking to various people from the South on FR and having previously traveled to some of the states under discussion, it's abundantly clear those with the hardcore racist hate filled KKK type mindset, are in no way representative of the today's South or anywhere else. Even individuals I met in very rural areas were kind people. Being "real" men or ladies of the cloth, contributes greatly to their makeup.

You know in a few months this topic will be relegated to the far back burner in comparison to some highly explosive events in the Mid-East.

[cowboyway]

This is imposable to determine, since membership in the Klan was secret

The FBI infiltrated the Klan. They knew the membership rolls.

since southern Indiana, Ohio, and Illinois are altra-rural & boring. That's virtual ground for hate groups.

That is the kind of stereotyping that the typical northeast yankee espouses that turn Southerners against you guys. You take shots against those that you do not know, encouraging those that you take those shots against to defend themselves. All this does is cause more dislike of north-easterners. I've been to those areas, also; lived in them. I found those people to be good solid citizens.

Fire bombing a church resulting in burning to death little children, small girls no less, involved in Bible classes, is one of the most barbaric acts one could imagine.

Do you have any posts from those of us on FR that do not consider these acts as reprehensible?

[M. Espinola]

"The FBI infiltrated the Klan. They knew the membership rolls."

The FBI infiltration of the Klan effectively broke it's back in the mid-1960's. It was a job well done.

"That is the kind of stereotyping that the typical northeast yankee espouses that turn Southerners against you guys. You take shots against those that you do not know, encouraging those that you take those shots against to defend themselves."

Would you disagree the southern ends of those corn belt states are not very rural. The Klan's main focus for brainwashing new numb numb's has always been far more rural then urban.

If I am stereotyping to a degree you are as well and most everyone else when it comes to this subject.

"I found those people to be good solid citizens."

I firmly agree the majority are as you stated.

"Do you have any posts from those of us on FR that do not consider these acts as reprehensible?"

Since I have been on here, there were around seven or eight who made the mistake of defending the Klan and they are no longer amongst those posting. They got booted off.

I am wondering since the early days of FR how many others were kicked off?

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Klan II of the post World War II era was the "Yankee Klan" where we'll see the Stars and Stripes with the pointy hoods.

But I doubt many people associated with Klan I of the 1860s and 1870s had much use for our American flag.

And in the Klan III of today, It seems from photos lile those displayed that esteem for our Stars and Stripes at the best ranks far behind that for the Reb flag and Hitler's rotten rag of atrocities.

[mac_truck]

I wonder how much longer the LOSers who advocate southern independence [by any honourable means necessary] are going to continue to be tolerated on this forum. Check out some of this crap from Dixienet

"The League of the South unveiled its new strategy at the 2005 national conference in Jekyll Island, Georgia, on 30 September-1 October. Below is a summary of that strategy.

First, the League’s new strategy must be implemented from the bottom up—locally--and not from the top down. If we don’t succeed on the local chapter level, then we will not succeed at all.

Second, we cannot emphasize too often or too strongly that the League is a Southern nationalist organization and not a heritage defense group. Our goal is Southern independence, complete, full, and total. This is our chief principle of action. All efforts must be tested against this question: Does it aid our quest for independence? If not, then don’t do it. It’s as simple as that. If your agenda does not have Southern independence at its core, then you’re in the wrong organization

Third, those who merely want to talk have no place in the League. We need doers, not talkers. We have not demanded enough action and sacrifice from our members. As I wrote in the last issue of the Southern Patriot newsletter, that must and will change, beginning at the top.

Fourth, our new strategy is broken down into seven parts. The following statement includes the principal goals (the whats, as it were) as well as how the goals will be reached. I encourage you all to memorize this statement:

“The League of the South seeks (1) to create a climate of public opinion conducive to Southern Independence, (2) making the League the leader of that movement, (3) by delegitimating the empire (4) through creating alternative, legitimate popular institutions, (5) exercising moral leadership (6) as the servant-leaders of the Southern people (7) in organic local communities"

I'd guess there's at least a dozen active FR posters working for LOS right now, including that dumb little cracker cowboy.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Correction:The second Klan was prominent after World War I, not the second war. But this isn't the Democratic forum, so I'm sure everyone here knows the facts of history and knew what I meant to say.

[M. Espinola]

Klan I

Strike out!

Klan II

Strike out! That's two away!

Klan III

Strike out! Three Outs, losers again! That's the whole ballgame :)

[Gianni]

[jaguaretype] Some of us don't "assume" the Klan are racist. They are definatively racist. By nature.

The organization is racist, by nature... it is also anti-jewish by nature, anti-catholic by nature, anti-internationalists, anti-a-lot-of-things by nature.

Claiming that you can look at a picture of a group of uknowns and divine what's in their hearts is a spectacular feat.... Please list all the names in cowboyway's picture and tell me what they're thinking right now (if they're still alive), and then I'm convinced that the word assume is inappropriate, but unless you can do that, all you have is an assumption as well.

[jaguartype] One might wonder if it were for instance a picture of a forest if cowboyway would still only assume that they were trees in the picture.

Trees don't have a hidden motivation for becoming trees that can't be divined from a photograph of a forest.

[mac] See 1319 and call my office if you require further remedial attention, ok wingnut?

Don't know anything about Riviera Beach. Sorry.

[Espinola] Are you implying Klansmen are not racists?

I'm not implying anything - neither is cowboyway. What everyone else is implying is that they can determine racism from a picture... Since you also appear to have such a talent, give this one a go:

By the way, Goodwin's law applies here. Thanks for playing Mark & Colonel. For the record, can you clarify for me whether or not jewish people constitute a separate 'race?' Is anti-semitism racism? Bigotry? Or a cousin to it?

[Espinola] Would you disagree the southern ends of those corn belt states are not very rural. The Klan's main focus for brainwashing new numb numb's has always been far more rural then urban.

What kind of argument is that, by the way? Hopefully, you were drunk when you came up with that one. Do you really think that all rural people are klan-loving racist nazis, as you have implied?

[Kangaroo] But I doubt many people associated with Klan I of the 1860s and 1870s had much use for our American flag.

Would be interested in your assessment of Klan I of the 1860s, if you'd like to share.

[mac] including that dumb little cracker cowboy.

A contribution to the thread well in accordance with mac_truck's usual posting standards. At least this time you refrained from obscure foreign curses, your mamma would be so proud.

[mac_truck]

A contribution to the thread well in accordance with mac_truck's usual posting standards.

Suppose you make a contribution to this thread by sharing whether you actually support an independent Southern nation or not. Hows that?

Then you can go back to your previously assigned duties...

[cowboyway]

I'd guess there's at least a dozen active FR posters working for LOS right now, including that dumb little cracker cowboy.

Mr. Moderator,

I feel that Mr. mac_truck has finally gone too far with the above untrue and slanderous statement. Mr. truck and several others have been trying to connect me with subversive organizations on several occasions by either implication or, in Mr. truck's case, a direct accusation.

I have been patient in the hopes that Mr. truck would stand down, but he only seems to be worsening.

Therefore, it is my request to the Admin Moderator that mac_truck be banned from Free Republic.

cowboyway

[mac_truck]

Hey bub, What I posted about League of the South I got directly from a link on your homepage. If you're not working for the LOSers and wish to disassociate yourself from them why don't you remove that link [and the others] and stop using this forum to rant against yankee tyranny and other southern seperatist nonsense?

Oh yeah, and bite me.

[jaguaretype]

"when you see a black man driving through a white neighborhood, do you assume he's a criminal?"

YOU ARE A TOOL COWBOY.

WHAT COLOR AM I??

How, in heaven's name can you assume my racial heritage...LOL!!!

What is with you anyway?

"....in the hypothetical photograph that I just..."

Number 1, Einstein:

The picture posted is not hypothetical.

And there is no number 2:)!!

Why don't we stop beating around the bush.

Are all people choosing to wear the Klan's outfit racist or not?

Yes or no?

I'm not giving you a hypothetical of maybe some FBI or undercover agent in the crowd of hooded kooks either.

No OJ juror "logic".

Just answer the question.

And I will not presume to know your answer but this could end this whole dancing around the issue thing youv'e been engaging in.

[jaguaretype]

"analogous"

You likely know that word and it's application the the forest/tree comment.

At least you have the sense to blast the klan for what they are but........

I'm glad you don't seem to be serving in the military in the Mid-East as you might not be very effective.

You'd likely not be able to pull the trigger on a band of terrorists wielding RPG's and AK's on the street until you had the chance to interview them and to what is in their heart:).

Are you lost again on the "analogy" thing?

Klan = Terrorist of a different stripe than in the ME...but terrorist notwithstanding certain differences.

There....just for the record as to my conviction.

If somebody decides to put on the klans' hood, they ARE klan. 100%. And are to be treated / reviled as such.
(just for your "assumption" SPIN thing....until they identify themselves as infiltrators). They are klan until and unless they set the record straight.

So you see Gianni, you are not the only one who dishes out condescension. (your posts drip with that quality).

Please continue to share with us your thoughts. LOL!

[old republic]

Lincoln suspended Habeas corpus without Congressional Approval which is unconstitutional.

Congress later retroactively approved it but that could be construed as an ex post facto law which is also unconstitutional.

[old republic]

The election for statehood of WV was held at gunpoint.

So it seems it was also with the ratification of the 14th amendment. Congress took advantage of the chaos of the war to do a lot of questionable things.

[M. Espinola]

"[Espinola] Are you implying Klansmen are not racists?"

KKK and Nazis united - in Raleigh, North Carolina 2004

I fully understand coupled with "almost" everyone else on FR the human sludge in the KKK are anti-American racists. You on the other hand, duck responding to direct questions on the issue every time, why is that? Why do you refuse to clearly state simple "Yes" or "No" response - like a normal thinking conservative?

"For the record, can you clarify for me whether or not jewish people constitute a separate 'race?' Is anti-semitism racism? Bigotry? Or a cousin to it?"

The word Jewish is always capitalized, unless you were conveying a "point"?

If you have a problem with Jews you have an ever larger problem with me and numerous others on FR.

"What kind of argument is that, by the way? Hopefully, you were drunk when you came up with that one."

Drunk? I do not drink, as you are attempting to imply, you lying trouble maker, Your insults, slander and masked anti-Jewish comments have not gone unnoticed.

"Do you really think that all rural people are klan-loving racist nazis, as you have implied?"

I did not imply what you stated. Maybe that's your viewpoint.

It's interesting you going on the defense for the likes of animals in the KKK, but then again it's so typical of neo-confederate cultists. Your underhanded style is to always lie for your greater cause of neo-confederatism. Manipulating history is another trait for your lot. Communists fifth columnists utilize identical deceptive tactics as do today's Lost Causers.

Do you also support "The League of the South" and there blatantly subversive goals to overthrown the government of the United States in the "South" or maybe that the entire country their going after?

Could it be these traitors have already included domestic terrorism in their planned insurrection #2? Recall Oklahoma City 1995. The American people will not allow "The League of the South's" violent overthrow of The United States.

No wonder you have attacked Mac_Truck since he exposed the truth concerning The League of the South's 2005 national conference in Jekyll Island, Georgia, on September 30th through - October 1st 2005 Let us read, shall we?:

"Our goal is Southern independence, complete, full, and total. This is our chief principle of action. All efforts must be tested against this question: Does it aid our quest for independence? If not, then don’t do it. It’s as simple as that. If your agenda does not have Southern independence at its core, then you’re in the wrong organization."

Dr. Michael Hill, President of the League of the South, calls for a Confederate Congress in Montgomery in 2004.

Are you, Mr Gianni, are card carrying member of this treasonous, anti-American organization?

The League of the South is the suit and tie version of the KKK.

Neo-confederate propaganda and disinformation

"A contribution to the thread well in accordance with mac_truck's usual posting standards. At least this time you refrained from obscure foreign curses, your mamma would be so proud."

You're still stuck the school yard, most likely on detention with childish cracks like that.

You expose yourself in attempting to discredit Mac since he exposes what's hidden behind you Lost Cause mask.

“The League of the South seeks (1) to create a climate of public opinion conducive to Southern Independence, (2) making the League the leader of that movement, (3) by delegitimating the empire (4) through creating alternative, legitimate popular institutions, (5) exercising moral leadership (6) as the servant-leaders of the Southern people (7) in organic local communities"

ANNOUNCING
THE GREY BOOK
BLUEPRINT FOR SOUTHERN INDEPENDENCE

The League of the South, the premier Southern Nationalist organization, announces the pending release of its long-awaited publication: The Grey Book: Blueprint for Southern Independence.

If there is one book you must read to understand today's Southern independence movement, it is The Grey Book.

Among other things, you will learn

1. Why Southern independence is not only desirable but likely
2. Why independence for the Southern States is the only realistic remedy for a descent into cultural barbarism, political tyranny, and economic bankruptcy
3. How a Southern nation, based on its Christian faith, would be radically different from the current American regime
4. How an independent South would handle the Social Security debacle
5. What sort of financial, monetary, and banking systems the South would adopt in order to ensure sound money and true economic prosperity
6. How a Southern armed services would look compared to the current imperial military
7. How a Southern defense and foreign policy would truly serve and defend the interests of the Southern people
8. How the dispossessed Southern Middle Class would benefit from independence
   
9. How the abolition of the income, property, and inheritance tax burden would increase prosperity and freedom
10. How breaking the current leftist media stranglehold would benefit the Southern people
11. How different education-elementary, secondary, and higher-would look in a free Southern nation
12. How law enforcement and the criminal justice system would be revamped to serve true justice and the security of the people of the South
13. How firearms ownership would be protected from anti-gun zealots
    

    Note: There is not one word about being an American - not one!

    In addition to infiltrated Islamic terrorist moles awaiting orders for terrorist jihad inside America's borders, plus communist organizing agents controlling large portions of the mass media, an additional threat to the American way of life threatens a future violent rebellion inside the United States. This domestic menace is termed the "Neo-Confederate" movement.

This subversive organization has agents planted on Free Republic as well as other Internet forums. There duty is to discredit all those who state the truth concerning their real goals and hidden agendas.

[M. Espinola]

It was unconstitutional to rip the United States in two, triggered by pro-slavery's "Confederacy Inc." plunging the nation into full scale civil war. A civil war the Confederate insurrectionists lost.

[M. Espinola]

The "League's" operatives do not like the fact their masks are being removed.

Keep up the great work! :)

[M. Espinola]

"Therefore, it is my request to the Admin Moderator that mac_truck be banned from Free Republic."

("banned")? Mac_Truck reprinted the League of the South's own alarming statements, off their own website, as I did. Plus you and someone else on here disagrees with everyone else stating the truth regarding the KKK being obvious hardcore racists. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Source of statements: The League of the South

Mac_Truck, myself and many others have printed the truth concerning the agents of subversive groups demanding America be carved up through violent means. The agents of such anti-American groups should be the one's top banned, thereby preventing their hate filled poison from filling up posts on FR.

[jaguaretype]

Gianni's style / posting history goes all the way back to the days of a similar (but now happily BANNED) bro, the infamous narlo chan or whatever it called itself.

Same style, different actor.