Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

CIO Jury: Businesses give open source a reality check
silicon.com ^ | 1 September 2005 | Andy McCue

Posted on 09/09/2005 11:30:32 AM PDT by Bush2000

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-70 next last
To: Golden Eagle
Companies like IBM are now investing in the Unix clone Linux... instead of building up their own proprietary Unix product.

That still has nothing to do with B2K's assertion that Linux is "a way for Europeans and Asians to suck commercial Unix IP dry", which sounds like a re-iteration of the baseless claim that Linux developers are stealing IP from Unix. Notwithstanding his earlier "wait & see" stance on this issue, it appears from his statement that he has finally bought into the idea.

As you may remember, The SCO Group and its Microsoft supporters have been trumpeting this for years.
I'd just like to know if anyone has yet found any actual proof of it.

21 posted on 09/10/2005 6:54:12 AM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard
He also lied in that post (#20) when he said "...they must give away to China and other countries for free..."

Yet another lie from GE.

22 posted on 09/10/2005 7:56:37 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce
Not surprising. In GE's twisted mind, if someone steals non-free (as in $$$) software, it's piracy, but if they steal GPL'd free (as in Freedom) software, you just gave it away.
23 posted on 09/10/2005 8:51:50 AM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard
Open Source follows open standards. It makes no sense for a developer to go his/her own way if no one else does.

Really? I believe you need to learn about the differences of Open Source and Open STANDARDS. They do not have anything to do with one another. For example, TCP/IP is an open standard. Linux Kernel is Open Source.

See the difference yet?

Maybe some more examples:
Open Office = Open Source XML = Open Standards SMTP = Open Standards Apache = Open Source HTTP = Open Standards

Now to use your own logic...it doesn't make sense for closed source vendors to go their own way if they want to play on the Internet. So they leverage Open Standards. And then some enhance the standards when the standards are weak or not evolved enough to give the user a good experience (but if they're smart they make it downward compatible).

Microsoft users HTTP, TCP/IP, SMTP because they are good, mature, reliable open standards.

24 posted on 09/10/2005 2:14:03 PM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard

Oh ya, I also forgot to put in this caveat. Just because something is an Open Standard doesn't mean it's a good standard. There have been lots of bad open standards. Which it is actually amazing that we have any open standards because it requires several competing companies to agree on the standard (if they expect it to be successful).


25 posted on 09/10/2005 2:18:06 PM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: for-q-clinton
TCP/IP is an open standard. Linux Kernel is Open Source.

Actually, TCP/IP is a suite of protocols. Within that family are many standard protocols. Telnet, for example.

Telnet signaling is actually used in quite a few other protocols. SMTP, for example uses a telnet-like protocol to contact mail servers and transfer messages.

Telnet, however, is insecure. It is not a good medium to use if you're transmitting passwords to a system, because it can easily be sniffed. So, out of necessity, a new standard protocol evolved, and it's known as SSH (Secure Shell). All major platforms support SSH natively, except for Microsoft systems. Just another standard that MS has decided not to implement. I guess MS thinks telnet security is just fine.

Now to use your own logic...it doesn't make sense for closed source vendors to go their own way if they want to play on the Internet. So they leverage Open Standards. And then some enhance the standards when the standards are weak or not evolved enough to give the user a good experience (but if they're smart they make it downward compatible).

"Enhancing" a standard is fine, when a standards body is involved with the enhancement. Microsoft, however, doesn't always do it that way. Microsoft's "enhanced" kerberos, for example, is no longer kerberos. It doesn't play with real kerberos because it isn't. Microsoft's "enhanced" HTML as generated by Frontpage and transmitted by IIS isn't real HTML if Internet Explorer is the only browser that can render it properly.

Microsoft is a big enough player in the market that it can go its own way if it wants. But it hurts its own customers when it ignores W3C standards and creates its own, then refuses to let everyone else in on it. It becomes a real-world vs. Microsoft-world problem. And Microsoft needs to realize that, as a convicted monopolist, it no longer has the mindshare that it once had.

To be sure, Microsoft has given the world some wonderful protocol standards. IMAP is one. PPTP is another. These are MS-developed standards that everyone can use, including Open Source programs, so everyone supports them. And Microsoft should be applauded for the contributions it has made.

Good standards are created by consensus, in the spirit of cooperation for the common good. Audio formats are a good example. When a protocol is propietary (WiMP, RM) it cannot be "open"; it is a "lock-in". When a protocol is encumbered by royalties (MP3) not everyone will use it. When a protocol is completely open (Ogg) it will become embraced... eventually.

So, I hope you can see that the standards and the software that implements them are very closely intertwined. If an OSS developer decides to create his very own "protocol standard" and no one else uses it, no one will use his stuff -- it's not worth the effort. MS is big enough and still has enough customers that it can throw its weight around, for a while. But customers are beginning to wake up to the issue, and governments are beginning to demand real-world standards-compliance.

26 posted on 09/10/2005 10:33:30 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: for-q-clinton
Oh ya, I also forgot to put in this caveat. Just because something is an Open Standard doesn't mean it's a good standard. There have been lots of bad open standards.

Name one.

27 posted on 09/10/2005 10:35:42 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard
Well off the top of my head, I'd say UDDI has been a poorly received. It's a step forward but it still requires proprietary design to make it functional (security and such).

And now give me a link that shows Open Source guarantees Open Standards.

28 posted on 09/11/2005 9:19:22 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard
When a protocol is completely open (Ogg) it will become embraced... eventually

So far MP3 is by far leading the way with WMA following. OGG does enjoy an enthusiastic fanbase, but I don't see it catching on.

29 posted on 09/11/2005 9:21:40 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard

IMAP was born in 1986 at stanford, MS had nothing to do with it..


30 posted on 09/11/2005 7:04:07 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (If SCO wants to go fishing they should buy a permit and find a lake like the rest of us..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard

FTP ;) what a kludge that one is..


31 posted on 09/11/2005 7:05:09 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (If SCO wants to go fishing they should buy a permit and find a lake like the rest of us..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: for-q-clinton
Well off the top of my head, I'd say UDDI has been a poorly received. It's a step forward but it still requires proprietary design to make it functional (security and such).

So what makes it a "bad" standard?

And now give me a link that shows Open Source guarantees Open Standards.

I never said that. Read for comprehension.

32 posted on 09/11/2005 8:21:46 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce

Scared to link me I see, when you accuse me of lying. The reason, simple, because you're the one who's been exposed as lying, just like last time you attempted to accuse me of it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1473011/posts?page=40#40

Face it shadowdude, you're the liar, and accusing me of it doesn't distract from it at all. With a name like shadowdude, do you really think you're fooling anyone?


33 posted on 09/11/2005 8:26:28 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce
"...they must give away to China and other countries for free..."

And since you don't even understand the communist GPL you so obviously worship, YES, if you "distribute" the software, you must give it away for free. Including to the Chicoms, and Al Queda, and anyone else who wants their own free and legal copy of it. It's how the license works, seems you would at least understand it since you push it on everyone.

34 posted on 09/11/2005 8:29:47 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: N3WBI3
IMAP was born in 1986 at stanford, MS had nothing to do with it..

Hmph.. I was under the impression that they did, but I just now checked the RFC.

Oh well.

How about UPNP? Is that a standard yet? That one's pretty bizarre.

35 posted on 09/11/2005 8:30:04 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Golden Eagle

Shadowdude shouldn't forget this other recent lie of his I exposed. I'm sure he'd like to sweep it under the rug too, since all he's done is ignore it and then go accuse me of being the liar on another thread.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1481139/posts?page=54#54


36 posted on 09/11/2005 8:34:05 PM PDT by Golden Eagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Golden Eagle
.. YES, if you "distribute" the software, you must give it away for free.

GNU says "baloney".

If I distribute GPL'd software for a fee, am I required to also make it available to the public without a charge?
No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.

See also: Selling Free Software.

37 posted on 09/11/2005 8:40:39 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: for-q-clinton
So far MP3 is by far leading the way with WMA following. OGG does enjoy an enthusiastic fanbase, but I don't see it catching on.

MP3 gave Red Hat and Icecast the jitters, especially Icecast, which no longer supports MP3. I personally prefer MP3 because it's more efficient in my applications. But it's got royalty strings attached, and the OSS guys don't like that.

Ogg Vorbis is certainly not taking off like it shoulda, at least not outside OSS.

38 posted on 09/11/2005 8:49:25 PM PDT by TechJunkYard (my other PC is a 9406)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard

Link? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1481224/posts?page=32#19

Yes you did say that. You have to read the post you were replying to to understand that. So be sure to read post #18 as well.



for-q-clinton: "But so what, OSS doesn't guarantee open standards, all it is is open source."

TechJunkYard: "Open Source follows open standards. It makes no sense for a developer to go his/her own way if no one else does.

"Think about it."



So let's parse it a bit...I said "OSS doesn't guarantee open standards". That's pretty straight forward. Now you can either agree with that statement or challenge it. Based on your reply it looks like you're challenging it. You said "It makes no sense for a developer to go his/her own way if no one else does." Thus you are saying all useable OSS guarantees Open Standards. I have merely proven it doesn't. It's not a big deal, I just hate when people mix up the meaning of Open Source and Open Standards. It confuses managers that have to make a choice. I can see why advocates of Open Source like to intermingle their definitions because it makes their case a lot stronger, but I have time and time again called people on their definitions of Open Source and Open Standards...and when it's revealed that they either Lied or Didn't know what they were talking about...well, let's just say I end up with the buying decision and they get to plot their next coup.


39 posted on 09/12/2005 5:25:24 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: TechJunkYard

Typical Linux Lie. By the actual GPL license, they must provide the source code "on request" by anyone. The most they can charge is shipping costs.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=gpl+%22source+code%22+%22on+request%22&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt


40 posted on 09/12/2005 5:40:01 AM PDT by Golden Eagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-70 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson