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To: Agamemnon
Thermodynamics forbids evolution? I love this one. Makes us physicists laugh out loud every time. You have no idea how far in over your head you are trying to use this as a defense for creationism.

To apply the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics to the system of life on earth in the way creationists try to, you would need to prove that the entropy of the entire earth-sun system is lower than the entropy of the earth-sun system supposedly was several billion years ago. You can't even prove the entropy of a human is lower than an equivalent mass of bacteria! The systems are too complex. Entropy is a difficult enough concept to apply to even simple, self-contained systems - it is a useless concept in the context you're trying to use it in.

Stop telling lies about science. Bearing false witness isn't a very Christian thing to do.

110 posted on 09/09/2005 7:08:52 AM PDT by Quark2005 (Where's the science?)
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To: Quark2005; SkyPilot
To apply the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics to the system of life on earth in the way creationists try to, you would need to prove that the entropy of the entire earth-sun system is lower than the entropy of the earth-sun system supposedly was several billion years ago.

You must mean: "the entropy of the entire earth-sun system is lower today than...." Otherwise what you have written has no comparative basis, and makes no sense just on that point alone.

"Billions of years" may be essential to the viability of your premise (and something you still need to prove your have rather than merely assume as you do) but your admission that entropy happens in an open system is a true enough, if not obvious admission. maybe you could educate ModernMan on this same point.

As a materialist evolutionist the burden is entirely upon you to prove that because earth exists in the "open system", all energy lost to entropy by inhabitants of the "open system" is essentially restored by the energy supplemented from the sun. You must also prove that biological engines came into being in order to perform work -- which until the engines existed had no purpose to be performed -- because of the energy from the sun introduced into this allegedly self-improving system. Lastly, you will have to make a case against what you have admitted is true: entropy occurs in an open system which the sun cannot in all its power restore.

You can't even prove the entropy of a human is lower than an equivalent mass of bacteria!

I don't have to. Your illustration admits entropy happens in "open" system earth inspite of alternative energy introduced to the system by the sun. You make my point.

The systems are too complex. Entropy is a difficult enough concept to apply to even simple, self-contained systems - it is a useless concept in the context you're trying to use it in.

It's a tough concept for you maybe though not entirely over the head of a typical 4th grader, because you are trying to make it conceptually more difficult than it is. Your argument ties you in knots and with evidence of entropy in the open system around all around you, you have made yourself purposefully blind for the sake of your silly if not entirely pretentious argument.

159 posted on 09/14/2005 2:36:59 PM PDT by Agamemnon (Intelligent Design is to evolution what the Swift Boat Vets were to the Kerry campaign)
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