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1 posted on 09/08/2005 11:08:54 AM PDT by aynrandy
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To: aynrandy
This guy is right!

Will one freakin' major newspaper write an article/editorial about how we need more REFINERIES in the US? There is a huge shortage of them.
2 posted on 09/08/2005 11:14:17 AM PDT by GianniV
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To: aynrandy
if oil and gas were free market items with many, many competitors, I would say.....let them gouge all they like as long as we have other companies to buy from....

at this point, whatever we feeble consumers think is fair or unfair is a moot point....we are technically in a vise and they are operating it...

solution is to break their grip....break their monopoly....break their hold on all of us....

3 posted on 09/08/2005 11:14:40 AM PDT by cherry
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To: aynrandy

Hello! Paging Bill O'Reilly! Please read and learn!


4 posted on 09/08/2005 11:16:40 AM PDT by wysiwyg (What parts of "right of the people" and "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?)
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To: aynrandy
But that's nothing. Last time I went to see a movie, I paid approximately $200,000 a gallon for soda - I'd need an infinity sign to calculate the per-pound price of popcorn.

Price Gouging at the Multiplex!

OBJECTION: "But we don't NEED to buy popcorn and soda..."
RESPONSE: "We don't NEED to buy bottled water, but we do. We don't NEED an over-sized restaurant serving, but we order it anyway. We don't NEED to rent that stupid movie, but we do it anyway. We don't NEED many things but we buy them anyway because WE HAVE IT GOOD IN THE OL' U.S. of A!

6 posted on 09/08/2005 11:17:06 AM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM - Being miserable for no good reason)
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To: aynrandy

People can rationalize what is happening all they want ---
There is a huge difference between MAKING A PROFIT and CRASS PROFITEERING.


7 posted on 09/08/2005 11:17:08 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: aynrandy

Harsanyi's columns are the only reason for ever picking up the Denver comPost.


11 posted on 09/08/2005 11:19:26 AM PDT by Millee (Earth First! We'll log the other planets later!)
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To: aynrandy
Scenario:

Governments pass legislation to cap price per gallon of gasoline at pump.

Next Day, everyone's 401k take an unexpected hit.

DIMS: "We need an investigation! BUSH'S FAULT!"

12 posted on 09/08/2005 11:19:37 AM PDT by frogjerk (LIBERALISM - Being miserable for no good reason)
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To: aynrandy
Today, for instance, a quick calculation revealed I had shelled out around 8 bucks a gallon for my bottled spring water.

But that's nothing. Last time I went to see a movie, I paid approximately $200,000 a gallon for soda - I'd need an infinity sign to calculate the per-pound price of popcorn.

I don't know about $200,000, but I paid $66 a gallon for a beer at the last football game I went to. Ridiculous?

13 posted on 09/08/2005 11:20:25 AM PDT by wysiwyg (What parts of "right of the people" and "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?)
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To: aynrandy

Stop the taxes and you don't repair roads and bridges...


14 posted on 09/08/2005 11:20:57 AM PDT by Edgerunner (Proud to be an infidel)
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To: aynrandy

It's not quite that simple. There are certain commodities known as essentials that do not swing freely on the supply and demand pendulum.

For example, it doesn't matter how high the price for food goes because of short supplies, the demand for food will not drop below a certain minimum level, because it is an essential commodity. At this point, supply and demand laws break down.

Gasoline and other energy commodities are in this category. No matter how high the price goes, past a certain point there will be no corresponding reduction in demand.

This is why price gouging is a real event in these cases.


15 posted on 09/08/2005 11:22:12 AM PDT by frgoff
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To: aynrandy
"Gas-price gouging is not illegal under Colorado law, and we think it should be," Colorado Speaker of the House Andrew Romanoff recently claimed.

As long as we're at it, can we make tax gouging by government illegal? ;)

20 posted on 09/08/2005 11:24:00 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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To: aynrandy

Ridiculous post. The stations jacked up the price in some cases overnight to $5 $6 a gallon. If thats not price gouging I will pee in my gas tank. There has been a spate of mergers in restraint of trade. in big oil Exom-Mobil being the most egregious. The Bush administration has turned a blind eye to the obvious anti trust violations. They just posted record gross profits of 134.49B on revenues of 295.70B... What loon can conclude there is no price gouging with profits ringing up that high?


31 posted on 09/08/2005 11:28:51 AM PDT by aspiring.hillbilly (!...The Confederate States of America rises again...!)
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To: aynrandy

Rare common sense from the Denver Post, the Front Range mouthpiece of the loony left.


38 posted on 09/08/2005 11:31:23 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: aynrandy

I'd like to ask all the little babies crying "price gouging" how they know what the stations paid for the gas and what their profit margins are. Most gas stations have a set profit margin and make the same amount on gas no matter what the price. The oil companies also have to pay for the oil they refine and sell. If you think the oil companies are making obscene profits, buy their stock, instead of listening to the economic ignorance of bill o'reilley and calling yourself a victim.


42 posted on 09/08/2005 11:33:58 AM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: aynrandy
Other than a few instances, I haven't seen much gouging.

I thought that the situation in Atlanta was an interesting sociological study in panic buying, but was not a national crisis.

By restricting the ability to build refineries, we have set up a situation of a lack of supply and insufficient competition to hold prices down. Given the short term inflexibility in demand (people are NOT panic selling their SUV's, have you noticed?) the market is not performing as well as it might, and we will continue to see price spikes, and crashes, until this situation is remedied through public policy.
56 posted on 09/08/2005 11:41:29 AM PDT by Wiseghy (Discontent is the want of self-reliance: it is infirmity of will. – Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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To: aynrandy

To all of you that believe supply and demand should always rule, please answer the following...

A nuclear device goes off in your city/town and you & yours have survived the initial blast. You need to get your family out, but the roads are gridlocked. Is it okay with you if when you go to the airport to evacuate, the airlines are charging $50,000. a ticket?

Supply and demand dictates that if they can load up the planes at that price, they should be able to do so. They would only have to lower the price when there were no more takers at $50,000., then $40,000, then $30,000., etc.

I ask again, would you be okay with that or would you be screaming at the government that you're being gouged?


60 posted on 09/08/2005 11:44:28 AM PDT by anonsquared
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To: aynrandy

"We were seeing the prices go up in four or five days from 60 to 70 cents..."

If this increase were due to a gas tax, they wouldn't consider it a legislative gouging of the public. They'd consider it money owed by the consumer to the protective state.


66 posted on 09/08/2005 11:46:27 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: aynrandy
It's going to be difficult to "combat" the irrefutable fact that fuel supply is down and demand is up.

Actually, that is refutable, and false. He's referring to the FEAR of a supply shortage (or its cousin, anticipation), not an actual shortage. That's why the dramatic price increases in much of the country during the past two weeks include some price gouging.

There were some areas with localized shortages, even a few outside of the hurricane areas. Higher prices in those areas was justified.

For the rest, large price increases were based on fear (or anticipation), rather than fact. IMO, consumers in those areas should take note of the stations that did that to them, and mark them for personal boycotts later, if possible. And if there are state laws against price gouging in those areas, the law should be enforced.

NOTE: The above contains some generalizations that might need to be modified in some specific cases.

82 posted on 09/08/2005 11:55:56 AM PDT by savedbygrace ("No Monday morning quarterback has ever led a team to victory" GW Bush)
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To: aynrandy

there is something wrong with the fundamentals of supply and demand argument. If the supply of fuel in this country is so fragile that we face the old 'disruption of supply ' every time a fly craps in california, we are in for big trouble. The oil companies have not done what is necessary to insure sufficient supply at the pumps and they have used every excuse to explain it and the federal gov't has allowed it. There is no supply and demand fundamental in play when the supply is controlled buy a monopoly. Every disruption results in record profits. Why not make sure we have more disruptions?


111 posted on 09/08/2005 12:18:05 PM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: aynrandy
I am always surprised how many people do not understand the law of supply and demand even on this forum.

The oil companies explore for, drill for, and put oil on the open market for sale. Anyone can buy it. Anyone on this forum can buy it. Anyone in the world can buy it. The price depends on how many want to buy it and how bad they want to buy it. Its that simple.

For the U.S. there is one more factor. Refining the oil into a usable product. The U.S. no longer has the capacity to refine all of the oil into a usable product for everyone's needs. This increases the demand by making people bid up the price of oil in order meet the demands of their customers. Some are wanting gas, some diesel, some heating oil,etc.

We will not get new refineries until the politicians relax the rules and regulations on building new refineries. No new refineries have been built for thirty years. With the rules and regulations now in effect it would take 10 years to build a new refinery because of the bureaucracy involved.

Remember this the next time you vote.
114 posted on 09/08/2005 12:19:47 PM PDT by kempo
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