The Dutch Solution to the New Orleans Problem

Special to FreeRepublic ^ | 3 September 2005 | John Armor (Congressman Billybob)

[dirtboy]

has anything even close to a Category 5 Hurricane ever hit The Netherlands?

They've gotten some pretty nasty winter storms off the North Sea, comparable to our N'easters - and those have caused them severe problems at times. But even the worst N'easter can't compare to Cat 5 storm surge. The Halloween storm battered homes along the immediate cost. But it didn't send 30 feet of water a half-mile inland.

[owl37]

"Dam the mouth of the Lake where it meets the Gulf, and release water only when the Lake level is higher than the Gulf."

The lake level is already higher than sea level. That is why it drains INTO the ocean, it's draining down.

As for giving people who live outside the area up for dead. Sounds like that's already what's happening.

[Carry_Okie]

I refer to the Dutch example because that nation seized thousands of square miles from the Atlantic Ocean, and has held it for decades against the worst storms the Atlantic could toss at its dikes, dams, and flood gates. Apply that thinking first to New Orleans.

The Dutch built most of those dikes and reclaimed the bulk of the Ij long before anyone had ever heard of a "corps of engineers." It was a local effort.

If the City of New Orleans wasn't self insuring and couldn't run to mama FedGov, you can bet your bottom doughnut that insurer would have made sure there were appropriate provisions for disasters, in place and periodically tested, else the policy would have cost more than the preventative measures.

[sionnsar]

I was a civil engineer and a theoretical physics major with advance placement at Yale. But then I bailed out into English and Political Science because I had heard about such things as weekends, dates, and booze. LOL.

Dang. Why'd nobody tell me about those in engineering school?

[dirtboy]

But then I bailed out into English and Political Science because I had heard about such things as weekends, dates, and booze.

Why'd nobody tell me about those in engineering school?

I went to RPI. We had weekends and booze.

But what's a date?

[tiki]

I have been livid at the lack of planning by the Dimocratic dolts who have run the state of Louisiana. I think a whole bunch of them should be in jail. They're already blaming it on the Bush, the Iraq war, the tax cut and global warming but what is happening in NO is a total lack of planning and acting.

[Jim Noble]

Could you or someone link to the photos? Threads are flying by and I haven't found them.

[Wiseghy]

This sounds like a great idea. I'm no engineeer, but I hope this provokes some serious discussion as the politicos work out their pointy fingers over the coming months.

[konaice]

The water storage capacity of Lake Pontchartrain may even be sufficient to prevent floods on the Mississippi from threatening New Orleans.

You need another look at those sattelite images. That lake can't even hold half a day's flow of the Mississippi when its at flood stage, and floods last a week. The lake is higher than the city. If you have to pump the city, it makes no sense to pump it into the lake with the river and the ocean just as close.

Further, the Dutch have no expierence with a river the size of the Mississippi, let alone storm surges like the one seen two days ago, reported to be 30 feet in some places.

Nothing in the Netherlands compares to the size and power of this river and this storm. Further, the Dutch countryside has flooded more than once in my lifetime. The only smart thing the Dutch did was not build cities in the reclaimed area untill the city area was rasided above sea level.

Lets face it. It was a dumb place to build a city, and its a dumber place to try and maintain one.

[wolfcreek]

I thought this story was gonna be about wind mills.

[Tax-chick]

When the storm first hit, I said, "Well, this isn't Bangladesh ..."

But is the government of New Orleans (and La. as a whole) really much better?

[Atlas Sneezed]

This makes good sense.

Pump stations should be in bunkers that withstand any storm, which are either near certain to be self-bailing, or with critical electrical and combustion components on top of structures about the flood level (a shaft can extend down to the pump impellers).

Another thought is to create, inside the protected city area, a "sump" region. Simply dig down, say 10' deep for a big fraction of the contained area, and spread this dirt on the other areas where rebuilding will occur. This would simply be a low-lying lake and park that could fill as needed when the system could not keep up. Spillover or breaches would be accommodated without flooding of valued structures, and the normal rain handling could be achieved with far less pumping capacity.

If the park/reservoir were half the area of the rest of the city, then it could accommodate most of the 5 feet of annual rainfall the city receives, with "trickle" pumps pumping it out in the weeks and months following larger rainstorms. I don't know how popular the "lakefront" properties would be, overlooking the street sewer runoff. but at the very least, it would provide the earth to mound for the other areas.

Of course, that might be a Panama-scale undertaking in terms of earth movement.

[coon2000]

There is a vehicle for getting the Mississippi River to Lake Ponchartrain, the Bonne Carre Spillway. It is up river from New Orleans, just past NORCO oil refinery.

[MizSterious]

"In any crisis in that city, it’s a race between corruption and incompetence for which will be the primary cause of the latest public failure."

Whatever ideas are put to the task, this one fact will always stand out, even if it's the Army Corps of Engineers in charge. They would still have to deal with the local graft ring authorities.

I lived there off and on for 15 years or so, and it's hard to get past the graft--although the incompetence sometimes plays a very strong role.

[Dems_R_Losers]

Unfortunately, now that the gambling interests have taken over the Mississippi coast, it will never be turned back to the sleepy community of beach houses on stilts that you suggest. The gambling companies are going to demand to rebuild - all those jobs and tax revenues depend on it, you know. Mississippi sold it soul to this devil and it will be in thrall to it forever. I guarantee that the casinos will be the first things rebuilt, and probably with our tax money too. The lobbyists are already preparing their assault on Congress and the state legislature. No doubt they will get special tax-exempt boinding authority and all sorts of other largesse to pay for the reconstruction. There are reports that they have already asked the legislature to repeal the offshore requirement so they can rebuild on land. They are saying Mississippi is losing a half-million dollars in tax revenue every day the casinos are closed.

[lolhelp]

I think the idea of rebuilding NO where it is(was) needs to be given up. There is plenty of places in La. and other parts of this country where a lot of people from there could live and work for a better life.

[truth_seeker]

"God made the earth, but the Dutch made the Netherlands"

From what they show of the people of New Orleans, I'm not optimistic they will replicate so well.

Looters, and whining, crying, corrupt democrats.

Maybe the Army Corps of Engineers.

[Rockingham]

The Dutch do not have to cope with 150 mph plus winds and potential 20 to 30 foot hurricane storm surges. Katrina would have readily blown through the Dutch system and done catastrophic, wrath of God damage due to their population density and lack of territory and facilities for anticipatory evacuation.

For New Orleans and Louisiana, a full scale hurricane storm surge system would require a comprehensive system of levees, dam, locks, and flood gates. In addition to what must be built on Lake Pontchartrain, levees and flood control facilities would have to be built throughout the region. Otherwise, a dam on the Lake would be a nullity as a storm surge swept across the nearby land.

The cost would be staggering. On the plus side, with a clean slate courtesy of Katrina, Louisiana's accelerating erosion problem due to canalization of the Mississippi could be addressed in an environmentally responsible fashion; and it might even be possible to use tidal flows into Pontchartrain to generate electricity.

[Redbob]

"If New Orleans is to survive as a city, the first step must be to yank authority for flood control out of local hands and give it to the Army Corps of Engineers."

I'll tell you what I think:

I think this is a damned odd proposal to come from an alleged conservative.
Just damned odd.

Where would you find the authorization to do this in the Constitution?
Yeah, yeah, I know: "Commerce clause." But really, don't you think the people of Louisiana, and specifically, the residents of New Orleans, should solve their own problems?

And my perspective is this: I HAVE family there (well, not there now) and I still feel this way.

My suggestion would be this: remove ALL federal subsidies for insurance for coastal areas, or any flood-prone areas, for that matter.
Then those who can still afford to live in flood-prone areas can purchase their own insurance - or not, as they see fit - and the federal government can deal with NATIONAL issues.

And one more thing: ever wonder why nobody's tried to dam the channels between Ponchartrain and the Gulf - other than the fact it's a ship and barge channel?
It's because that's not one neat little watercourse, but a vast morass of swampland, a large area of porous ground that is little inclined to support a dam.

[MadIvan]

Indeed, the Army Corps of Engineers. They were responsible for the success of the Panama Canal - this is child's play in comparison.

Regards, Ivan