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To: ThePythonicCow

I have been trying to stay on the military aspect of this as that is the only one from which I can speak with any authority (US Army counterintelligence from 1985 to 1990), and, everything I have said applied to us at the time.

In your quote regarding Mrs. Lawton, they are very specific in refering to "the DOJ’s law enforcement and intelligence agencies". Furthermore, the CIA and the FBI have been traditionally "kept apart" from the beginning.

Now however, in light of what you said, it becomes clearer to me that "Gorelick's Wall" (I just like the ring of that!!) was more a restriction on the DoJ than on the other agenices, in effect, making the restrictions that had long applied to other agencies "internal" (which makes the whole thing even MORE dirty than it already was!!)


782 posted on 08/30/2005 9:20:03 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Good clarification - thanks.
795 posted on 08/30/2005 9:49:21 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: An.American.Expatriate
Actually, I wasn't being careful when I suggested that Lawton's role involved internal FBI co-ordination. Her most significant role was as Chief Counsel for OIPR, which was the key office deciding how the primary intelligence agencies, FBI, CIA, NSA and the DIA, would interact with DOJ's law enforcement.

I think we are being seriously smoked here. Lawton did allow substantial interaction between these other intelligence agencies and law enforcement, according to my Post #616. This was clamped down on by Scruggs, and reinforced by Gorelick's memo two years later.

By accepting the position that it was Gorelick's memo that initiated this Wall, we open ourselves to the counter argument that no it wasn't Gorelick's wall, as this Wall existed all along, prior to 1995, and dating all the way back to the United States v. Troung Dinh Hung case in the late 1970's.

But with the passage of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) the office of OIPR was established to funnel requests for search warrants for the purpose of foreign intelligence to a sitting secret judicial panel. This met the requirements of the 4th Amendment, while allowing the intelligence agencies and law enforcement to co-operate on overlapping cases. It was under Reno, starting with Struggs, that this was changed to the Wall.

See further Testimony - United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary - The USA PATRIOT Act In Practice: Shedding Light on the FISA Process. - September 10, 2002 - Mr. Kenneth C. Bass, III . Bass was the first Chief Counsel for OIPR, and Lawton the second. Bass and Lawton did not have in place a wall that would have kept 9/11 (or Chinagate) hidden. Rather they had in place a legal and constitutional means to facilitate such investigations and co-ordination.

Clinton, Reno, Struggs and subsequently Gorelick did replace a means of co-ordination between the primary intelligence agencies and law enforcement with a Wall that funneled information from both sides up through an office now controlled by a political appointee (as the head of OIPR became after 2003), turning what had been an affective and legal means of co-ordination into an affective but illegal means of cover-up.

Do not fall for the claim that the Wall was there for the 15 years prior to Gorelick's memo. It was there for about two years prior.

814 posted on 08/30/2005 11:13:26 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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