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To: RusIvan
"..Who was those commies. For your surprise in first ever commie goverment of Lenin there was 6 ukranian ministers: Podvoiskii, Lunacharskii, Tsurupa, Antonov-Evseenko. Dibenko, Krilenko. There founded Ukranian Soviet Republic and ukranian Red army.."

I'd have to check the names mentioned above, but what I know for sure is that for a republic with 75-80% Ukrainian majority, Ukrainians were under-represented in the party. The first Communist Congresses of the Comm. Party of Ukraine had ethnic Ukrainians at single digits percentage of the Party's composition. At the best of times Ukrainians were 50-60% of the republic's party.

So quite much of ukranians participated in building USSR. Why they did it? You try to answer yourself.

Communists of Ukraine couldn't succeed by themselves- they were to weak, so they invited Russian communists and the glorious Red Army. Russian communists brought that order to Ukraine.

..Why the name of new commie state was 'Soviet Union'. Why not "Russian republic" for example?

In the early days of USSR that was what Stalin was pushing for, unitary rather than federal type, but considering that Ukraine had already separated from Russia with declaration of the Ukr. Nat'l Republic in 1917 and USSR being the "most democratic state" which allocated some freedoms to the national minorities, the republics came to be.

If there was red Poland and red China but there was NOT red Russia but Soviet Union? Why that?

I might call myself "Ruler of the Universe Who Is Hung Like a Horse", but it barely reflects the reality. SU was not a state with republics who were equal, so they might as well call it "Russia".

34 posted on 08/29/2005 1:20:53 PM PDT by Mazepa
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To: Mazepa; lizol; spanalot; sergey1973

I'd have to check the names mentioned above, but what I know for sure is that for a republic with 75-80% Ukrainian majority, Ukrainians were under-represented in the party. The first Communist Congresses of the Comm. Party of Ukraine had ethnic Ukrainians at single digits percentage of the Party's composition. At the best of times Ukrainians were 50-60% of the republic's party.==

Of cause someone doesn't count eastern ukranians as trully ukranians. You too?

Check who was Vladimir Myekovsky and Nikolai Ostrovskii. It is 2 the "singer of revolution". Both are ukranians.
Check who was "bat'ka Mahno" (the father Mahno) the ally of Red army? Ukranian anarkhist revolutioneer.

DO you know that October revolt wouldn't happen if not Dibenko and his camrades seamen from Baltic fleet who base in Peterburg.
Most minority of seamen of Baltic Fleet was ukranians as far as same Dibenko who becomes later one of minister of fisrt bolshevick goverment of Lenin.
Those seamen of Dibenko was first fighters of revolt who sieged and took the Winter Palace in Peterburg the residence of conventional goverment. Peterburg was administrative capital of Russia at that time.

Moscow was religious capital of Russia. And became the capital of USSR after was occupied by bolshevicks in 1918.

So ukranians was in first rows of bolshevick fighters and represented Ukraine very well in bolshevick hyerarchy.

SU was not a state with republics who were equal, so they might as well call it "Russia".==

Did you read USSR constitution? Why on earth they needed whole bunch of republics ever if you right? Why not call them all "Russia" as you say? If that then it would be so easy.
But they called it "Soviet Union". It was done with deep sense.

Exactly they wanted to emphasize for everyone especially for ethnic russians that new state is NOT russian state as was Russian Empire before it.

Russian Empire was called "RUSSIAN Empire" not ukranian empire not uzbek empire not kazhakh empire not georgian empire. The word "russian" in her name just emphasize whose empire it is.

Likewise British Empire was BRITISH Empire not Indian not Arabian and so on. Not australian empire. Not iraqian empire.
You know well that all those lands were included in British Empire at some times but state itself was always called BRITISH anyway. WHy? Because britons are founded this British Empire and britons are ruled her.

Same way with Russian Empire.
Ukraine and part of Poland and parts of Central Asia and Sibiria and Far East parts were included in Russian Empire but state was always called RUSSIAN Empire anyway. Because likewise Britons russians are founded Russian Empire and russiasn are ruled Russian Empire.

Remember that British Empire and Russian Empire has buch of minorities in them.

Recall when red power came to Poland or China their new states was name Polish People Republic and Chinese People Republic. Again "polish" and "chinese" in names of new states.

BUT there no such things for russians! There was RUSSIAN Empire but became 'Soviet Union' not russian union for example.

Why that? I will answer.

Just because the fathers founders of USSR was NOT russians but bunch of mostly non-russian minorities citizens of former Russian Empire.
SO they wanted to emphasize to everyone that thier new state is NOT russian state. They wanted to show to everyone especialy ethnic russians that Russian Empire is dead and bolshevicks not ethnic russians will rule now in thier new state.

Because the bolshevicks being the bunch of minorities won Civil War 1917-22 under banner of national ethnic independences. Including ukranian and including baltic and so on. That is why!


48 posted on 08/30/2005 1:26:17 AM PDT by RusIvan
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