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To: CarolinaGuitarman
…Suppose I were a super-genius molecular biologist, and I invented some hitherto unknown molecular machine, far more complicated and marvelous than the bacterial flagellum. Suppose further I inserted this machine into a bacterium, set this genetically modified organism free, allowed it to reproduce in the wild, and destroyed all evidence of my having created the molecular machine. Suppose, for instance, the machine is a stinger that injects other bacteria and explodes them by rapidly pumping them up with some gas (I'm not familiar with any such molecular machine in the wild), thereby allowing the bacteria endowed with my invention to consume their unfortunate prey…

Now let's ask the question, If a Darwinist came upon this bacterium with the novel molecular machine in the wild, would that machine be attributed to design or to natural selection? When I presented this example to David Sloan Wilson at a conference at MIT two years ago, he shrugged it off and remarked that natural selection created us and so by extension also created my novel molecular machine. But of course this argument won't wash since the issue is whether natural selection could indeed create us. What's more, if Darwinists came upon my invention of a novel molecular machine inserted into a bacterium that allows it to feed on other bacteria, they wouldn't look to design but would reflexively turn to natural selection. But, if we go with the story, I designed the bacterial stinger and natural selection had nothing to do with it. Moreover, intelligent design would confirm the stinger's design whereas Darwinism never could. It follows that a design-theoretic framework could account for biological facts that would forever remain invisible within a Darwinian framework. It seems to me that this possibility constitutes a joint test of Darwinism and intelligent design that strongly supports intelligent design -- if not as the truth then certainly as a live possible theoretical option that must not be precluded for a priori philosophical reasons like naturalism…
-William Dembski

190 posted on 08/28/2005 5:46:26 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander

Your basic problem with theDembski challenge is that it is utterly impossible to probe the origin of a design by looking at it.

This isn't what ID is about. ID proposes to prove that a design could NOT have come about through a series of small, functional steps. Such a proof is silly to contemplate, and in fact, it will always paint itself into a corner, as it has with blood-clotting and the flagellum.


195 posted on 08/28/2005 6:03:44 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Heartlander
And if that bacterial stinger in your Dembski quote evolved through natural selection, Dembski would assume it was intelligently designed. ID *theorists* see intelligent design in everything; everything can be intelligent design. Yet they have not ONCE shown evidence for this designer. There is no reason to a priori assume a designer, and science demands that all causes be natural and material. ID can never be a scientific theory.
199 posted on 08/28/2005 6:21:24 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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