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ID: What’s it all about, Darwin?
The American Thinker ^ | August 26th, 2005 | Dennis Sevakis

Posted on 08/26/2005 8:57:58 AM PDT by wallcrawlr

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To: Heartlander
"Scientific Creation Theory .711324/2.2"

ALL scientific theories only work with natural, material causes. Supernatural/divine intervention has no place in ANY scientific theory. Professor Lui was just stating the preconditions of every scientific theory in existence today.

You DO know that right?
161 posted on 08/27/2005 6:47:49 AM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is a grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: Ichneumon

You are obviously a critical thinker. Is it impossible that the universe was created?


162 posted on 08/27/2005 10:42:21 AM PDT by DC Bound (American greatness is the result of great individuals seeking to be anything but equal.)
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To: Mylo
Science can never lead one away from God. Only reveal the architecture and laws of the universe.

Who said anything about science? Here's what I said.

The bottom line is it doesn't really matter what "Darwinism" is. As long as it leads one away from God, that's all that truly matters.

163 posted on 08/27/2005 12:50:15 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: Texas Eagle

And Darwin's scientific theory of evolution through natural selection cannot possibly lead one away from God; but only show how the universe that God created works.


164 posted on 08/28/2005 6:47:32 AM PDT by Mylo ("Those without a sword should sell their cloak and buy one" Jesus of Nazareth)
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To: Mylo

There is nothing scientific about Darwinism. It's pure speculation.


165 posted on 08/28/2005 9:31:43 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: Mylo
And Darwin's scientific theory of evolution through natural selection cannot possibly lead one away from God; but only show how the universe that God created works.

You don't call naziism and communism being led away from God?

166 posted on 08/28/2005 11:59:52 AM PDT by tamalejoe
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To: Texas Eagle

Darwin postulated that there was differences between members of the same species and that these differences could be selected for or against by the environment leading to them being more or less prevalent within the population depending upon if they were selected for or against. This has been demonstrated repeatably in the lab.


167 posted on 08/28/2005 1:54:02 PM PDT by Mylo ( scientific discovery is also an occasion of worship.)
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To: Mylo
Darwin postulated that there was differences between members of the same species and that these differences could be selected for or against by the environment leading to them being more or less prevalent within the population depending upon if they were selected for or against. This has been demonstrated repeatably in the lab.

My ass.

168 posted on 08/28/2005 2:11:04 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: Texas Eagle
Oh, I see what passes for logical discourse with you.

If you ass has been repeatably demonstrated in the lab you should keep your personal life out of it. What a hobosexual.
169 posted on 08/28/2005 3:21:01 PM PDT by Mylo ( scientific discovery is also an occasion of worship.)
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To: Mylo
Ah, it's logical discourse you seek. Why didn't you say so in the first place.

Logically discourse this -- in the following statement you say: Darwin postulated that there was differences between members of the same species and that these differences could be selected for or against by the environment leading to them being more or less prevalent within the population depending upon if they were selected for or against. This has been demonstrated repeatably in the lab.

Question: In the lab demonstrations, who or what did the selecting?

170 posted on 08/28/2005 3:27:32 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
I am merely posting creation theories because coyoteman seems to enjoy creation stories. Now, you are welcome to defend a creation theory/story if you choose - but should science set out to disprove all telic possibilities with stories that “must” be natural regardless of the findings?

Dr. David R. Liu, a professor of chemistry and chemical biology at Harvard seems to think that the purpose of science is to create stories/theories in regard to the origin of life that – well, as he says, ‘’my expectation is that we will be able to reduce this to a very simple series of logical events that could have taken place with no divine intervention.”

Myth 1: The theory of intelligent design is a modern version of Creationism.
Fact: The theory of intelligent design goes back at least as far as classical Greece and it has been debated in nearly every century since then.

…"as a blind man has no idea of colors," Newton wrote, "so we have no idea of the manner by which the all-wise God perceives and understands all things." But the structure of the universe provides a clue, enabling us to "know (God) . . . by his most wise and excellent contrivances of things, and final causes." As for the idea that science could lead to atheism, Newton dismissed it brusquely: "Blind metaphysical necessity, which is certainly the same always and everywhere, could [not] produce [the] variety of things" found on our diverse and ever-surprising world…

171 posted on 08/28/2005 4:11:04 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: MACVSOG68

My faith, and the worldly evidence that God has given me only help to strenghten it beaxause it shows that He created the world, and how he did it, but I am also wise enough to know that we humans were not there for creation so all we beside theory is revelation.


172 posted on 08/28/2005 4:17:48 PM PDT by JSDude1
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To: cripplecreek

I am curious what you would call serious problems?


173 posted on 08/28/2005 4:19:05 PM PDT by JSDude1
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To: Heartlander

Your post is rather redundant, because we on the evo side have been saying for years the there is nothing new in Behe.

Behe's book, almost word for word, was published in 1802. The argument was old then, as you have pointed out.

This would explain why Darwin's Origin is written explicitely to answer this line of thought. Origin takes each and everry argument posed by William Paley in 1802, and counters it.

The rebuttal has yet to be published. Current ID theory is just a paraphrase of Paley.


174 posted on 08/28/2005 4:22:45 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
Are you stating that ID is a theory that can be proven?

Evolving the Bacterial Flagellum Through Mutation and Cooption

Evolving the Bacterial Flagellum Through Mutation and Cooption: Part II

Evolving the Bacterial Flagellum Through Mutation and Cooption: Part III

Evolving the Bacterial Flagellum Through Mutation and Cooption: Part IV

175 posted on 08/28/2005 4:50:41 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: Heartlander

I suppose that if you are willing to lie about what biologist say about the evolution of the flagellum, you can make a pretty good case against your invented scenerio.

The easiest way to lie is to take a layman's explanation, which is necessarily vague, and poke holes in it for vagueness.

If you want to argue against actual biology, instead of aganst straw man biology, I suggest you start with a description that is not vague.


176 posted on 08/28/2005 5:00:15 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: js1138
What? A hand wave dismissal to actual data that comes from an agnostic and still acknowledges ID as a possible theory?

Did you read the data? Have you become as dogmatic as the people you criticize?

Is the Design Theory, in your opinion, a theory that has been disproved?

177 posted on 08/28/2005 5:10:45 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: tamalejoe
You don't call naziism and communism being led away from God?

God created naziism (sic) and communism.

178 posted on 08/28/2005 5:14:25 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey

Thank you senator Durban…


179 posted on 08/28/2005 5:15:55 PM PDT by Heartlander
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To: woodb01

It is natures intention that the exact genetic information from both parents will be seen in the offspring's DNA in the the critical stages of fertilisation. However, it is possible for this genetic information to mutate, which in most cases, can result in fatal or negative consequencies in the outcome of the new ogranism.

Non-Disjunction and Down's Syndrome
One well known example of mutation is non-disjunction. Non-disjunction is when the spindle fibres fail to seperate during meiosis, resulting in gametes with one extra chromosome and other gametes lacking a chromosome.

If this non-disjunction occurs in chromosome 21 of a human egg cell, a condition called Down's syndrome occurs. This is because their cells possess 47 chromosomes as opposed to the normal chromosome compliment in humans of 46.

Chromosome Mutations
The fundamental structure of a chromosome is subject to mutation, which will most likely occur during crossing over at meiosis. There are a number of ways in which the chromosome structure can change, as indicated below, which will detrimentally change the genotype and phenotype of the organism. However, if the chromosome mutation effects an essential part of DNA, it is possible that the mutation will abort the offspring before it has the chance of being born.

The following indicates types of chromosome mutation where whole genes are moved:

Deletion of a Gene
As the name implies, genes of a chromosome are permanently lost as they become unattached to the centromere and are lost forever



Normal chromosome before mutation
Genes not attached to centromere become loose and lost forever
New chromosome lacks certain genes which may prove fatal depending on how important these genes are
Duplication of Genes
In this mutation, the mutants genes are displayed twice on the same chromosome due to duplication of these genes. This can prove to be an advantageous mutation as no genetic information is lost or altered and new genes are gained



Normal chromosome before mutation
Genes from the homologous chromosome are copied and inserted into the genetic sequence
New chromosome possesses all its initial genes plus a duplicated one, which is usually harmless
The next page continues looking at these chromosome mutations and mutations that happen within genes that can prove to be more harmful to the organism at hand. The following pages also investigates polyploidy in species.

biology-online.org


180 posted on 08/28/2005 5:20:17 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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