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To: ml1954
I associate God with my experience of holy wonder, rather than thinking of God as an "intelligent designer" who exists apart from the universe, tinkering with it from afar.

But Christianity (the reverend Mr. Burklo is a Presbyterian minister) does teach that God exists apart from the universe. He is not our "experience of holy wonder." Complete atheists can marvel and wonder.

Nor does ID state that because life is so intricate and delicate that we can not imagine how it came to be without intelligence, it must have an intelligence behind it. Rather, it states that certain aspects of life, (i.e. irreducible complexity of molecular systems) could not have come into existance by random processes. Sure there are arguments against ID and irreducible complexity, but you have to argue against what ID actually says.

And no, believers should not put all their hope and faith in ID.

22 posted on 08/25/2005 3:52:16 PM PDT by heartwood
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To: heartwood

And no, believers should not put all their hope and faith in ID.

I believe in The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

24 posted on 08/25/2005 4:00:46 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: heartwood
You're right about the article's flaws. I was debating whether or not to post this article because of the things you mention. I decided to post it nevertheless because I think it does make some good points that outweigh it's negatives.
28 posted on 08/25/2005 4:05:29 PM PDT by curiosity (.)
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To: heartwood

But Christianity (the reverend Mr. Burklo is a Presbyterian minister) does teach that God exists apart from the universe.

Take it up with Mr. Burklo. I believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists apart from the universe.

47 posted on 08/25/2005 4:54:47 PM PDT by ml1954
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To: heartwood; ninenot; sittnick; steve50; Hegemony Cricket; Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; FITZ; ...
But Christianity (the reverend Mr. Burklo is a Presbyterian minister) does teach that God exists apart from the universe.

I do not agree. God is everywhere and the universe exists because He wills it to be. He created it and He sustains it in orderly way which can be described by us as the law of nature.

Miracles happen when He makes the exception to His rules. We can say that laws of nature are God's habits.

Now, if He wanted to create man through evolution, who are we to second guess Him.? After all it is written in the Holy Scripture that He made man out of clay.

52 posted on 08/25/2005 6:24:43 PM PDT by A. Pole (" There is no other god but Free Market, and Adam Smith is his prophet ! ")
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