Posted on 08/23/2005 10:47:25 AM PDT by JamesP81
A Cleveland man died last Sunday after a scuffle with security guards at the Walmart Super Center located at 6626 FM1960 in Atascocita.
According to witnesses, Stacy Driver ran out of the store and was pursued by Walmart loss prevention employees. A short time later, Driver was dead, and the Walmart employees were trying to explain the last moments of his life to police.
Charles Portz said he was getting out of his car when he saw a heavy blonde haired man being chased by five people who appeared to be security or store employees. He said he saw them wrestling the man to the ground. "The blacktop was extremely hot," said Portz "He had no shirt on and they wouldn't let him up off the blacktop."
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According to Portz, Driver began to plead with them men. "He's begging, 'Please call an ambulance, let me up, do something, I'm gonna die," said Portz. He said the loss prevention employees called the police more than once, but another bystander called for an ambulance after realizing Driver was in trouble. Portz said he eventually began to plead with the Walmart employees. "I told them, this guy doesn't look like he's breathing," Portz said, "They said, 'He's all right."
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The store employees could not have known that the witness who was pleading with them to let Driver get up from the hot pavement was a high profile Houston attorney, from the Portz and Portz law firm.
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What I am saying is that even an LEO does not have the right to do what these people did.
And a private citizen no more rights than an LEO.
You appear to be defending the fact that this guy died, on the grounds that use of deadly force was appropriate because the guy was a thief. (Why else would you be using the law cites you posted?)
Use of deadly force was obviously not warranted, however, because the guy was already restrained when he died. His death therefore cannot be justified on those grounds.
Which leaves use with the uncomfortable fact that it was the actions of these guards that led to this guy dying. It's very likely true that this guy would be alive today had they just let him stand up.
Negligent homicide or manslaughter charges would be appropriate here, and Wally-world's no doubt going to get slapped with a lawsuit, too.
I, also, have had cashiers that didn't remove the beep beep tag and the alarm go off when exiting.
People look at you like you are a thief and even though they see you show your receipt to the very kind elderly lady at the door, they still think you are a thief.
Each time (and there have been several) this has happend to me, I immediately asked to speak with the store manager and filed a complaint against the employee.
Upon arrival at home, I would get online and file a complaint against the store manager for having poorly trained employees.
(b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.
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Kinda hard to argue that these guys did not commit criminal homicide, especially when witnesses could tell that the guy was dying.
But they do to some extent when it concernes private property. A cop can not shoot someone in my back yard at night stealing my tools but I can without question.
And if you looked at the webpage I cited, you would see that it discusses excessive force, which eastforker said "does not exist."
Which has nothing to do with the factual scenario we are currently discussing. How about staying on point. Oh, wait, because you have no support for your position...I forgot....
It probably doesn't rise to the level of murder. Some sort of manslaughter or negligent homicide would be more appropriate.
No, I am defending the fact that none of this would have happened if the guy had not stole and run in the first place. If he had stopped when he was discovered stealing he would be alive and well in a jail cell right now.
That is not criminal, bad judgement maybe but not criminal.
I would never think that, you did what you had to do at the time. Where are you from anyways.
If the guards had let him stand up, he would also be alive and well in a jail cell right now. The difference between him being dead or alive does not rest on his stealing, but rather on the actions of the guards.
Nobody is trying to justify the guy's stealing. The difference between you and the rest of us is, we're not trying to justify the fact that the guy is dead.
The law, even in Texas, seems to disagree with you.
Where are you from anyways.
Washington, DC.
Are you a coroner in your spare time?
Yeah, this isn't getting worked up about right? Some guy was tortured and murdered while he begged for his life, but no big deal right? Some of you people just make me sick. What I can't figure out is why no one tried to physically rescue the guy.
Go find the DPS training standards for security guards...I couldnt find it.
tortured!
Now its Abu Graib!
Yes, it does rest on the fact he is a thief. If the guy on top of him felt threatened because of the guys size he had every right to do what he did. I am so sick and tired of hearing apologist pleading that thieves should be able to steal and run and fight without consequence. Don't friggin steal and these problems will not happen.
That explains it, totaly different mindset.
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