Present at the re-creation of Intelligent Design

The Houston Chronicle ^ | Aug. 20, 2005 | WILLIAM SAFIRE

[D-fendr]

So its purpose is survival/reproduction, then after self-awareness its purpose changes to....?

[Drammach]

For life, in general, that's it.. Survival, and reproduction...

[D-fendr]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what "life in general" is, but:

How do you know that life, in general, has only the purpose of survival and reproduction?

[Drammach]

How do you know that life, in general, has only the purpose of survival and reproduction?

Because without it, that life would not exist..
Those behavioural traits are absolute necessity
They are "instinctual"..

[D-fendr]

How do you get from "necessary" to "only"?

How do you know that life in general has only the purpose of survival and reproduction?

[Drammach]

How do you get from "necessary" to "only"?

How do you know that life in general has only the purpose of survival and reproduction?

I never said "only", you did.. ( first instance of word "only" post #83.. Yours.. repetition in post #85.. Yours..)
In fact, I anticipated your inclusion of that "modifier" to be used in your responce...
Obviously, an attempt to change the conversation in a direction you may use to your advantage..

Let me re-iterate..
I said survival and reproduction were "necessary", not the "only" characteristics, behaviours..
And that these two traits exist as "modifiers" to evolution..

Evolution is not Random..
The rules of survival and reproduction help to direct evolutionary change..

[Manic_Episode]

If the Origin of the Species is "science" then the origin of matter is certainly science as well.

[wallcrawlr]

Yep, very true.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Space aliens???

[Tim Long]

That a God allows a world where millions slowly starve to death is merciful?

Millions are starving to death because they insist on reproducing in large numbers in regions that are, as they know full well, underdeveloped and incapable on sustaining all of their lives.

[WildTurkey]

Millions are starving to death because they insist on reproducing in large numbers in regions that are, as they know full well, underdeveloped and incapable on sustaining all of their lives.

All part of God's plan ...

[D-fendr]

My apologies then.

I arrived at "only" purpose from this dialogue:

Is this the only purpose "life" has?

– Until it reaches a state of "self-awareness", yes..

So its purpose is survival/reproduction, then after self-awareness its purpose changes to....?

– For life, in general, that's it.. Survival, and reproduction...

I'm not trying to force you either way or trick you. I'm just continuing the inquiry about your statement: "There is now "purpose" and "direction".."

And that's how we got here.

I'm now thinking you mean: Survival/reproduction are the neccessary, but not only, purpose of life in general.

Have I stated this correctly?

[Tim Long]

Whoever said it was part of God's plan? People should start taking some responsibility instead of blaming God.

[WildTurkey]

Whoever said it was part of God's plan? People should start taking some responsibility instead of blaming God.

You mean that

1. God did not know that these millions would starve to death when he created man?

2. God has no power to save all those millions of innocent people?

3. The babies are should take responsibility?

[Drammach]

My apologies as well.. for any misconception..
I truly wish to discuss this, but over time have become somewhat guarded due to people wishing to play "Aristotlean Logic" games..

My premise is that ID (and creationism) purport that the creation / existance of "Life" is impossible as a random sequence of events..
I think it has been shown that for Amino Acids, the laws of chemistry apply.. so the creation of peptides, polypeptides, proteins, are not "random", they follow the logical consequences of chemical reactions..

Then we get into Life.. and evolution..
Again, the argument against evolution is randomicity..

My argument is, once you have life, survival and reproduction direct action and motivation, and therefore, evolution..
Choices are made, even at the most basic of levels, to live or die, to make a choice that will produce the best chance of offspring..
Not chance, but the "best" chance..
At the most basic levels of life, this is not a conscious decision, but it is a decision, nonetheless..

For more advanced forms of life, more complex decisions are made, but they are still based on survival and reproduction.. Propagation of the species..

Even in humans, with the advent of puberty, the drive to reproduce is still a "primal" force in behaviour..
It is only the fact that humanity has developed society and rules of behaviour instilled in each of us from birth that keeps humanity from bashing each other over the head and dragging our prospective mates off to the nearest cave..

We now consider other factors.. Security, compatibility, looks, psychology, etc.. but the fact remains that we still basically want to insure we have offspring to "carry on"..

In some cases, offspring will even come before personal survival..
Witness the mother protecting her young.. even in the face of death..
Absent offspring however, survival is still the primary motivator..
Self Defense is still a viable defence for taking the life of another..
Basic Survival..

Now you know what I mean by "life in general"..
And, with this somewhat verbose qualifier, I say, Yes, you have stated it correctly..

[Tim Long]

No, but should God send manna or something to reward sexual irresponsibilty?