Russia: Putin Calls For Withdrawal Timetable For Iraq

RFE/RL ^ | 19 August 2005 | Claire Bigg

[sergey1973]

"Read this post - the Ukrainians have the distinction of fighting both the communists and the fascists at the same time."

Among Ukrainian Insurgency Army there were a number of non-Ukrainians. A number of Soviet Army soldiers (incl. Russians, Belarus, Tartars, etc) joined UIA (UPA). After that, Stalin sent NKVD troops to fight Ukrainian Insurgency.

Also there were less than honorable aspects of struggle of UIA under Nazi Regime. They did fought Nazis and then Soviet Regime which was surely honorable. However, they also brutally fought against ethnic Poles in Volhynia and Galicia. Read the following post below.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Massacres%20of%20Poles%20in%20Volhynia

[spanalot]

"The only those who benefited were Communist Party top apparatchiks. Certainly among apparatchiks there were many Russians. The ordinary Russians, Ukrainians and other soviet citizens were their slaves."

You have no sense of the magnitude of the plunder that flowed into Russia during these years - far too much for zakuska, dachas , and caviar. It went to build the Infrastructure of Russia - which is now falling apart as it can no longer be sustained by artificially high oil and imperial plunder.

[spanalot]

"spanalot--a free advise."

I guess you get what you pay for.

[jb6]

It went to build the Infrastructure of Russia - which is now falling apart as it can no longer be sustained by artificially high oil and imperial plunder.

I guess one of the other things you don't read or believe in is business/economic journals. Why I post the articles so people can educate themselves and not believe your lies.

Dachas? You do realize a dacha or country home can be anything from a 1 room shack to a 30 room estate? So they picked up the houses and moved them to Russia? Or are you just listing off random words you once heard?

Caviar? Oh boy. Caviar, for your further education, comes from the Caspian Sea (black), primarly or from Siberia for the red salmon variety.

[Quinotto]

The Romes=the gypsies. And as far as the Dacians, they were not gone, "pushed out", they assimilated with the Roman Empire and formed what is known as Romania, long before the Albanians, Slavs, Hungarians, Bulgarians. But, as anything else when it comes to the history of Balkans, it's just completely insane.

[Quinotto]

Clearly you missunderstood :) The Romes (which are not to be confounded with the Romans) are the Gypsies. Ugh, big problem history and various nationalities. And as far as the Magyars, they are of Asian origins, migrating into Eastern Europe long after DACIANS comingled with the ROMANS (not to be confused, again, with the Romes). The map has them way too SE.

[jb6]

Not Romes but Roma. Romes just looks like a plural Rome. Where on that map are the Roma nation?

[Quinotto]

I thought jb6 posted one of those Ring Trilogy maps.

Wait, wait, actually they think that the Romes are the Romans !!!!!!!!!!!!

[jb6]

At that point they were to the SE and also peoples didn't totally migrate, some stayed behind. A prime example are the Bulgars. Bulgaria is a slavic nation but it was conquered by the Bulgars (asiatics) who were then assimulated into the overwhelmingly slavic majority. However, some Bulgars remained, forming a quasy nation and remained so until being absorbed by others. There are still Bulgars on the Volga.

[Quinotto]

Not Romes but Roma. Romes just looks like a plural Rome. Where on that map are the Roma nation?

Bud, the "map" you presented as evidence came from the following website (http://www.imninalu.net/), a site which has as the first sentence the below:

This was the first website I have created. Concerning the origin of Roma ("Gypsies") in relationship with some aspects of the history, culture and spirituality of Israelites. Roma and Jews, two peoples whose history appears mingled, their destiny is mixed up, their origins may be common….

The Romes and the Jews with common origins? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? The whole website is a bunch of nonsense, including the map. Jeez Louise, how far is this going to go?

[Quinotto]

At that point they were to the SE and also peoples didn't totally migrate, some stayed behind. A prime example are the Bulgars. Bulgaria is a slavic nation but it was conquered by the Bulgars (asiatics) who were then assimulated into the overwhelmingly slavic majority. However, some Bulgars remained, forming a quasy nation and remained so until being absorbed by others. There are still Bulgars on the Volga.

Bud, I wonder where did you get your history lessons. The Magyars could not have been in that part of the world, the ROMANIANS been there way before that, not migrating but as descendants of the Dacians (of Tracians) and Romans. The Magyars invaded lands NW of Transylvania and settled there, mingling also with the locals and forming Hungary. They became important contributors to the culture of the Balkans and Eastern Europe and also they fought the Ottoman Empire tooth and nail for their own freedom.

[GarySpFc]

How about the Russian who pretend to be American?

Little man, JB6 is an American, living in North Carolina, and a former Army office. He is currently working on his masters. These things I know for a fact. Now, are you going to attack me as not being American?

[Lukasz]

I dont know whereveer he is little man or not but he is not American. I'm on FR too long to be fooled by you guys.

[GarySpFc]

Well then who did benefit from hundreds of years of Kremlin imperialsim? The Little Green Men on Mars?

Soros whining is very telling coming from your lips. You do realize your paymaster is from the depths of hell?

[jb6]

Regardless of the website, since I didn't read it but searched only for the map, the map is not wrong IRT the original subject, the Khazars. Here are some others then:

Northeastern Europe AD 700

Northeastern Europe AD 800

Northeastern Europe AD 900

Northeastern Europe AD 1000

[GarySpFc]

You have no sense of the magnitude of the plunder that flowed into Russia during these years - far too much for zakuska, dachas , and caviar. It went to build the Infrastructure of Russia - which is now falling apart as it can no longer be sustained by artificially high oil and imperial plunder.

Georgia benefited from Stalin's dictatorship, NOT RUSSIA. Go crawl back into bed with your paymaster, Soros.

[jb6]

Thrace:
Southeastern Europe AD 1

Daciae (not exactly in Romania)
Southeastern Europe AD 100

Southeastern Europe AD 200

[GarySpFc]

I dont know whereveer he is little man or not but he is not American. I'm on FR too long to be fooled by you guys.

Lying is a spiritual departure from reality, and you long ago took that trip. JB6 is definitely American.

[sergey1973]

""spanalot--a free advise."

I guess you get what you pay for."


I always give good advises for free -:))) It's an idiom. Plus, I'm not a consultant to dispense advises for hefty sum of money -:)))) Also I'm neither Russian nor Ukrainian propagandist--I try to be an honest observer of history meaning that I'm not ignoring the unpleasant facts.

One more free advise--there is of course a Russian Propaganda and Russian Chauvinism/Imperialism. There is also Ukrainian Chauvinism. Each of the chauvinisms have their own myths, legends, or lies. Sometimes chauvinistically oriented historians instead of lying or distorting the facts, leave out certain facts that spoil the idealistic picture of country/culture/civilization/nation/religion/whatever they are describing.

Russian/Soviet Chauvinistic propaganda had their own myths which we know too well--I.e. Russian imperialism was nothing more but "gathering" of Russian lands or "filling the security vacuum". For Soviet era Chauvinists, Ribbentrop-Molotov treacherous pact was a "necessity" for USSR to ward off future attack by Nazi Germany. These are surely lies and don't hold up to close scrutiny.

However the link you've posted is a typical example of just another chauvinism--Ukrainian one. Here is why I made this conclusion.


http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:iL_onVxtmSkJ:www.infoukes.com/newpathway/Page446_2003.htm+%22first+ukrainian+front%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

First "Ukrainian Front" (there were 4 of them, 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th) as I told before meant the army group advancing through Ukraine that had soldiers originating from Ukraine, Russia, Central Asia, Caucasus--all over fmr. USSR (not just Ukraine). Second the link I posted about less-than honorable aspects of UIA (like brutal war waged by Ukrainian insurgency against Polish inhabitants of Galicia and Volhynia) were data is provided by such respected Historians of Poland like Norman Davies were blissfully left out of the post that you provided. Another fact left out of the post was that Galicia Division (SS Galichina) was created by Nazi Germany authorities in 1943 to fight against advancing Red Army. A number of soldiers from these Division later joined UIA to fight both Nazis and Soviets (that's why most of them actually joined the division in the first place--to fight both Soviet Army and Nazi Germany whenever opportunity arises), but the fact is that this division was created under Nazi Germany auspicies. Plus, being in SS meant that some of the soldiers had to participate in Nazi Atrocities. Another fact left out of the post. We must not forget that the young guys who joined the SS Division were thrown between Hitler and Stalin--two worst mass murderers in human history. However, SS Division was not created by German Nazi Authorities for the purpose of fighting for independent Ukraine.

My advise is this--remember that any propaganda (Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, etc.) is still propaganda that tends to play loose with facts. I heard a great phrase, "The truth is something that leads to absolute truth". Absolute truth is neither Russian, nor Ukrainian, nor Polish, nor American. We can't fully grasp absolute truth--God only knows what absolute truth is. However, we can get close to it if we look at facts--not myths, legends, distortions or lies.

[sergey1973]

"You have no sense of the magnitude of the plunder that flowed into Russia during these years - far too much for zakuska, dachas , and caviar. It went to build the Infrastructure of Russia - which is now falling apart as it can no longer be sustained by artificially high oil and imperial plunder.

Georgia benefited from Stalin's dictatorship, NOT RUSSIA. Go crawl back into bed with your paymaster, Soros."

Folks--cut out crap, please !!! Neither Russia, nor Georgia, nor Ukraine--no ordinary people anywhere in the fmr. USSR benefited from Communism and Stalin Terror. Huge number of Georgians were sent to GULAG too--Stalin did not have any feelings, including to his own ethnic group.

Stalin had his OWN RELATIVES and the RELATIVES OF TOP POLITBURO MEMBERS sent to GULAG. The "Dachas" spanalot likes to mention were for Communist Party bosses--not for ordinary Russians millions of whom were behind barbed wires on Kolyma, Vorkuta, Central Asia in Stalin GULAGS working to death on Soviet Industrial Projects. So let's stop this fest of lies and distortions.