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To: qam1
Well I am not sure it is BS, it is just poorly cast as an argument.

It is really a epistemological criticism of Macro evolution, and they have some points from this angle.

The real problem, of course is that much of the evo argument cannot be really be approached from the empirical, experimental methodology that can be found in the so-called "head science" (which from my point of view is really science proper,) while at the same time the Evo side want to claim the surety of "hard science." I really think that some areas of Biology were if fact better characterized by our forebears as "Natural Philosophy."

I see a lot of rhetorical and philosophical hanky panky on both sides, and some of it seems to be even unwitting. I imagine if this get thrust into public scrutiny this will come to the fore and the whole argument will shift completely. You evos might be surprised at the outcome and who you end up arguing against.

My background is in Mathematics and Philosophy, and from that viewpoint, I find much of the claims of much of what we call "science" on today's campuses do have some dubious value, and built on some methodologically unsound footings.

You people imagine that all educated people are scientist, or buy the claims of science without analysis.

In this the IDers have sensed something: You too have a "religious" bent as well.

The public sense this as well. or so it seems to me.

You give some of your own prejudices away here by somehow implying that the "blue state voter" is somehow more intelligent that the "red stater." The admission is as striking as it is inadvertent

Evos to not seem to grasp the broader implications outside of science that the IDers somehow intuitively grasp, and those implications need to be addressed, though perhaps the conflict between the two sides here is not the place to do so.

204 posted on 08/18/2005 7:10:02 PM PDT by CasearianDaoist
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To: CasearianDaoist
The real problem, of course is that much of the evo argument cannot be really be approached from the empirical, experimental methodology that can be found in the so-called "head science" (which from my point of view is really science proper,) while at the same time the Evo side want to claim the surety of "hard science." I really think that some areas of Biology were if fact better characterized by our forebears as "Natural Philosophy."

I see a lot of rhetorical and philosophical hanky panky on both sides, and some of it seems to be even unwitting. I imagine if this get thrust into public scrutiny this will come to the fore and the whole argument will shift completely. You evos might be surprised at the outcome and who you end up arguing against.

My background is in Mathematics and Philosophy, and from that viewpoint, I find much of the claims of much of what we call "science" on today's campuses do have some dubious value, and built on some methodologically unsound footings.

Good thoughts. The true hard sciences (physics, chemistry, etc.) are rigorously testable in ways that evolutionary biology is not. Fossil evidence can be examined to improve the soundness of one's guesses about what happened in the past, but they are still educated guesses.

Other 'soft' sciences like archaeology & anthropology allow for -- necessitate, even -- the assessment of 'intelligent design' to differentiate man-made artifacts (tools and such) from naturally occurring features, so it's not as though such an idea is completely alien to science.

648 posted on 08/19/2005 12:44:36 PM PDT by Sloth (History's greatest monsters: Hitler, Stalin, Mao & Durbin)
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