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World's largest solar installation to use Stirling engine technology
Free Energy News ^ | Aug 05 | Sterling D. Allan

Posted on 08/13/2005 3:42:35 AM PDT by Arkie2

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To: Richard-SIA

Or, as I think it was Larry Niven who pointed it out first, we can use parts of the Nevada Test Site to dispose of the radioactive waste from temporary increased use of nuclear-fission for power generation [until we get SPS or fusion or something else thats better]...aferall what less harmful place to put nuclear waste could there be than down a selected-for-geological-stability and already-radio-contaminated old bomb-hole ?


101 posted on 08/13/2005 8:57:11 PM PDT by FYREDEUS (FYREDEUS)
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To: tangerine; Arkie2
What does one 50 mph sand storm or one 1" hail storm do to this array of mirrors?

Several years ago I read an article which mentioned that one of the bigger issues with large-scale solar facilities was simple *dust* and dirt and pollen, etc. Over time it builds up on the mirrors/lenses/solarcells/whatever, and you have to send out a freaking huge army of window washers on a regular basis to keep , or work out some automatic system of cleaning the collectors. Either way, you have to budget a surprisingly large amount for maintenance operations, plus probably a heck of a lot of water for the washing, and likely a soap or other cleaning solution as well. Now you've got drainage and run-off to worry about, and environmental effects, and...

102 posted on 08/13/2005 9:15:03 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: dljordan
I said "available". "Available" means "present, or ready, for immediate use" according to Merriam Webster.

Tell me, what technology are you referring to that is "present for immediate use", and/or "ready for immediate use"? Perhaps I am behind in my reading? Perhaps "cold fusion" turned out to be real, after all? Perhaps something else?
103 posted on 08/13/2005 10:17:53 PM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: Ichneumon
There is a trough style reflector power system near Barstow. Saw it from a distance. Mirrors are glass faced.

To clean these mirrors they use an automatic high pressure spray system that uses pure deionized water. Otherwise there would be excessive deposits on the mirrors. (I would think a small amount to 100% evaporating surfactant would help.)

Usually the system is run every night. Deserts are dusty. Some human has to check a zillion nozzles for plugging, distorted spray patterns, pump pressures, leaking fittings, etc. This also means a large water consumption.
104 posted on 08/13/2005 10:37:48 PM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: Arkie2

"Tests conducted by SCE and the Sandia National Laboratories
 have shown that the Stirling dish technology is almost twice as
efficient as other solar technologies."

I think this is a wonderful idea. The stirling engine is an amazing motor.
It makes a neat little model. The stirling engine below runs on the heat
from your hand.

  Holtz
JeffersonRepublic.com

105 posted on 08/13/2005 10:55:38 PM PDT by JeffersonRepublic.com
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To: FYREDEUS
I have always admired the Orion concept, and would love to work on one. Even did some numbers on one once.

Alas, I don't believe we will see Orion in our lifetimes.

Me, I believe we can get the job done with Sea Dragon.

This was the initial concept from more than forty years ago:
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/searagon.htm
I see no reason we could not build on Bob Truax's excellent work and make something more practical, I mean, much, much larger.

Get NASA out of the way first, and we will have a chance.
106 posted on 08/13/2005 10:58:24 PM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: Wonder Warthog

I wonder why they switched to hydrogen???

My guess would be cost.


107 posted on 08/13/2005 11:08:22 PM PDT by jwh_Denver (The government said it? I believe it! Hehe hoho haha!)
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To: Jack of all Trades; PatrickHenry
Must... separate... self.. from.. computer. Life is calling. Be back later.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

108 posted on 08/14/2005 2:17:07 AM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: bobbdobbs
"Actually I was right in both cases. H2+O2 releases more energy ounce per ounce than C chain + O2 reactions. A particular C chain might have more energy in any given set of molecular bonds, but C is 12 times as massive as H. Carbon chains such as petroleum have many bonds to many atoms in the chain, but each atom adds mass. So while a C chain can have a lot of energy in all its bonds, it also has a lot of mass."

Yeah, your "ounce for ounce" weasel-word lets you out. But on a mole for mole basis (which is what the entire rest of the world uses) hydrocarbons contain more energy than hydrogen.

"C chain fuel in a rocket has a lower ISP than H2 because the C bonds are not proportionally stronger than H bonds compared to their weight."

Sorry, but wrong again. Carbon has a lower specific impulse than hydrogen because the mass of the molecule formed and ejected is lower. It has squat to do with the "strength of the carbon bonds".

"Chemistry happens to the electrons bonds and not all electrons in C and other heavier elements are involved in bonds. So they are carrying a lot of nuclear dead weight."

Uh, PhD in chemistry--minor in Nuclear Science.

109 posted on 08/14/2005 3:59:59 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Jack of all Trades
"If somebody married a Stirling engine to a hybrid vehicle, THAT would be interesting.

Are you in the energy field?"

Agreed. You'd think that it would be a possibility. Especially if you've ever owned a car colored car in the summer. Definitely some thermal potential there.

Aside from my aura, I'm not in the energy field...;-)
110 posted on 08/14/2005 4:35:37 AM PDT by chief_bigfoot ("isn't THAT amazing?" - Ron Popiel)
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Comment #111 Removed by Moderator

To: Iris7; Arkie2; Ichneumon

RE: mirrors, dust, etc.

Seems like a lot of coatings and materials research should go into how to make the mirrors plus maybe some sort of static dust repulsion system could be built-in.


112 posted on 08/14/2005 7:57:47 AM PDT by tangerine
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To: bobbdobbs
"Specific impulse is total impulse divided by mass. It's a product of the mass of the exhaust AND its ejected energy. A more massive exhaust molecule can have the same ISP as a lighter exhaust molecule if its energy is proportionally greater."

Yes, but you're not going to get a significantly higher exhaust velocity with any chemical fuels--there's simply not enough difference in energy. Reducing the average exhaust mass of the ejected propellant is a LOT easier than increasing the exhaust velocity in a chemically reactive system. Only ONE chemical fuel combination has a higher specific impulse then H2-02--an exotic propellant using hydrogen, lithium, and fluorine. Now, in things like "ion drives", where the absolute speed of the "heavier" propellant is VASTLY higher, then yes, you can get usably higher ISP's with propellants with higher mass values.

And in fact, there's still a lot of argument that H2-O2 is NOT the best propellant choice, for various other reasons (like safety).

"Time for a refresher course, me thinks."

No, actually it comes from trying to winnow down complex processes into simple terminology. Spend a little time on the Wikipedia "rocket propulsion" page and see how complex it really is.

113 posted on 08/14/2005 8:00:29 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: Iris7
The Stirling cycle engine very recently has become a viable automotive engine.

Would you please provide a link for that statement? To the best of my knowledge, Stirlings don't replace Otto cycle engines in automotive applications because they take longer to start, run at much higher RPMs, are bulkier and aren't suited to the variable power that automobiles demand.

A power plant, however, seems like a made-to-order application for Stirling engines.

114 posted on 08/14/2005 8:12:51 AM PDT by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: Iris7

On the other hand, newer Hybrids are using Atkinson-cycle engines to get greater efficiency from a gasoline engine at the expense of power. They're more complex because the pistons are connected to the crankshaft via a series of levers instead of directly as in the Otto cycle. This allows the engine to run with a longer power stroke, hence the efficiency gain.


115 posted on 08/14/2005 8:38:32 AM PDT by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: Arkie2
"Surely there's some toad or lizard that will be affected"

Nope, it will be the totally useless desert tortoise.
116 posted on 08/14/2005 9:00:00 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Richard-SIA
There's a flash demo of a two piston Stirling at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/stirling-engine3.htm. Apparently I can't post Macromedia Flash (*.swf) on Free Republic - which is just as well.
117 posted on 08/14/2005 9:55:58 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: G Larry
Use the time, money, and realestate for nuclear power plants!

I second your opinion.

118 posted on 08/14/2005 10:11:30 AM PDT by elbucko
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To: Arkie2; All

For something different: A perpetual motion machine:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1463214/posts


119 posted on 08/14/2005 11:30:26 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: Doohickey

What? Atkinson would be turning over in his grave! Toyota and others are telling a lie to get around the Miller cycle patents that they really use. No extra connecting rods in these engines, just a late closing intake valve.


120 posted on 08/14/2005 2:30:07 PM PDT by John Jamieson (Hybrids are a highway around CAFE, that's all they're good for.)
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