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To: Sam Hill
where do you suggest Israel go when it/they leave Palestine?

I am a simple man Sam.

I remain bitterly disappointed that we did not pursue OBL and bring his head out on a spike.

I thought/think he was/is the enemy that brought death and destruction to our shores and that therefore our single minded goal should have been as I have stated.

I leave it to heavyweight thinkers like yourself to justify abstract diversions like Iraq and Palestine.

509 posted on 08/10/2005 5:51:08 PM PDT by iconoclast (Wastin' away again in hearts-and-minds'ville.)
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To: iconoclast

" I remain bitterly disappointed that we did not pursue OBL and bring his head out on a spike."

Wow! You're absolutely right! Killing OBL would have ended all of our problems and terrorims world-wide!

I wish Bush and the Pentagon had your insights. Maybe then they wouldn't have given up looking for him, and gone onto this joy ride into Iraq (as Israel's puppets).

But I realize your answer is probably: "sure let Israel be wiped off the earth. Why not?" But you're just too shy to say it.

--Except indirectly, like when you agree with anti-Semitic kooks like Cindy Sheehan.


514 posted on 08/10/2005 5:56:10 PM PDT by Sam Hill
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To: iconoclast

I am also disappointed that OBL's head is not resting uncomfortably on a pike. And while I disagreed with the timing of the Iraq war, I believe it would have been necessary at some point, and that's better to lance a boil sooner rather than later. And as for Israel, I lend it support. I am going to wonder how long people will hold a grudge against Israel for surviving. And it's a democracy. And it's undoubtedly a Western country. And if for no other reason than long-term geo-politics, or supporting our own, I believe America should support Israel's existence.

Now, I can appreciate that some people, many very respectable reasonable people, think Israel does some or many things that are immoral, or unjustified. In fact, I sometimes even agree with them. I don't like all of their policies. But I do know that they exist in a region that wants to literally push their citizens into the sea. That wants nothing more than to kill all those different from them, and that Jews, being a small, but successful, and visible minority are an easy target for resentment and hate.

I also look at the past of that conflict (if you will forgove the momentary diversion), and I think Israel has a good reason for being suspcious and reacting harshly.

However, I agree with you that the decision to bring OBL to justice should have been a primary concern, and a primary goal, and I agree with you that it is disappointing, and I will go farther and say shameful, that we have not done more to pursue him. However, I hope you will agree with me when I say that he is not an isolated case, and that there is a culture of hatred that has spawned him, and that hates the West, and would like nothing better than to topple America, level the West and rebirth the eternal Caliphate. Which I trust you would not like to live under. And I trust you understand that this was growing, even before 9/11. Even before the 2nd Intifada began in 2000. And, in fact, stretches back to 1917 or 1924, depending on how you look at it.

Thus, it is important, if we wish to solve the problem and not slap some placebo balm on the wound that will smell nice, temporairily relieve the pain but not ultimately heal the wound nor cure the festering infection, that we remove the source of the threat. Which is what we are trying to do. Albeit, with different degrees of success. I think we can all agree here that a higher degree of efficiency and success is possible and, obviously, preferable. But I think in general, and once again I speak only for myself, that I would rather America do something, then nothing. And that if it comes to the fall of the West, I would rather go down swinging than lying down. Or having my children growing up in an Islamist suicide cult. Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.


531 posted on 08/10/2005 6:05:45 PM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Canada: Inventor of the Adromonon (If you don't know what it is, then it's kinda sad we're proud of)
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