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To: Alter Kaker

Mike claims the solar system is closed, and I guarantee you he has far more credentials in this respect than you. I have seen him debate this issue many times, and everyone to date has gone away with their tails between their legs. Would you like to debate him on line?


51 posted on 08/03/2005 9:55:03 AM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: GarySpFc
Mike claims the solar system is closed, and I guarantee you he has far more credentials in this respect than you.

I'd be happy to concede for the sake of argument that the solar system is de facto closed, even though that's not really true. But that's totally irrelevent, because the Earth -- where life evolved -- isn't even remotely closed. You're confusing localized realities with generalized trends. For the Earth to be closed, it would not be able to receive any net radiation, and I'll wager you a large orb of thermonuclear hydrogen that it does.

BTW, I doubt very seriously that you want to make this a question of credentials. I've studied both biology and physics on the post-graduate level, something I seriously doubt you have done.

54 posted on 08/03/2005 11:29:43 AM PDT by Alter Kaker (Whatever tears one may shed, in the end one always blows one’s nose.-Heine)
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To: GarySpFc; Alter Kaker
Mike claims the solar system is closed, and I guarantee you he has far more credentials in this respect than you. I have seen him debate this issue many times, and everyone to date has gone away with their tails between their legs. Would you like to debate him on line?

Mike is correct in that, as far as energy transfer between solar systems, our solar system as a whole is a closed system.

That, however, has nothing to with the staus of the Earth within that closed system.

In the essay you posted, Mike Shelton summarizes:

******************

SUMMARY:

The earth is not a closed system. ..............

Reasonably, our solar system can be treated as a closed system for most ordinary thermodynamic studies.

Within a closed system, there are subsystems that can gain complexity spontaneously, provided there is a greater loss of complexity in another interlocking system.

********************

Did you follow that?

The solar system, as a closed system, is gaining entropy as required by the laws of Thermodynamics.

BUT, and this is the critical but,

in Mike Shelton's own words..............

"....Within a closed system, there are subsystems that can gain complexity spontaneously, provided there is a greater loss of complexity in another interlocking system."

Do you understand that?

The Earth is a subsystem of the solar system as a whole.

The Sun bombards the Earth with a immense amount of solar energy every second. (Therefore, it is not a closed system.)

As I explained in my Post 100, biological organisms can become more complex on Earth because energy is being pumped into that subsystem (Earth) by sunlight which power photosynthesis which transforms solar energy into biochemecally stored energy in the form of sugars which powers biological creatures who become more complex as they live their lives.

Those creatures then grow not only extremely complex biological bodies but also invent and build fantastically complex machines such as........the cruise missile that Mike Shelton works on.

And where is "the greater loss of complexity" in another interlocking system that Mike Shelton writes about?

It is in the 4 million metric tons of hydrogen that the Sun that the Sun consumes every second.

I fully I gree with what Mike Shelton wrote.

The problem seems to be that you are not undrestanding what he wrote.

Either that, or he is writing one thing and saying another and fooling those who do not understand what he is saying on both sides of the debate in order to have fun and entertain himself.

114 posted on 08/03/2005 8:49:33 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: GarySpFc

Based on what you posted allegedly by him, I've concluded he's a moron. I will be delighted to correct his complete and utter ignorance of thermodynamics on any forum you like, though it would be better if he paid tuition and took a course in physical chemistry or thermal physics.


139 posted on 08/04/2005 7:31:42 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: GarySpFc
Mike claims the solar system is closed, and I guarantee you he has far more credentials in this respect than you. I have seen him debate this issue many times, and everyone to date has gone away with their tails between their legs. Would you like to debate him on line?

Funny how he's so ignorant on physics and biology then.

157 posted on 08/04/2005 5:33:56 PM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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