Posted on 08/02/2005 10:24:13 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
APPLETON (AP) - At Jokers Bar, the staff of eight has been laid off. Owner Tony Schaefer said he's now working the bar with his brother.
Schaefer is among many business owners still fuming a month after a ban on smoking at all indoor workplaces was enacted in this city.
The ban was approved by 56 percent of voters in an April 5 referendum and went into effect on July 1. Madison's similar smoking ban went into effect on the same day, although there was no referendum preceding it.
"We'll be closing up" if business doesn't improve, Schaefer said. "The sad thing is we don't even know if anyone would buy it."
Some say they have reason to fume.
Nearly three-quarters of the 64 businesses that responded to a request from the Appleton Post-Crescent reported sluggish sales in the past month, most from 10 to 40 percent lower compared with last July. Some reported sales off as much as 70 percent.
Many tavern owners in Madison have made similar complaints, and sympathetic members of the City Council have already tried once, unsuccessfully, to repeal the ban.
More than 30 tavern owners in Appleton have filed a lawsuit to repeal the ban, and the Common Council this month is expected to review a proposal that would exempt taverns and bar areas of restaurants, similar to a measure proposed statewide.
For now, sales are down 35 percent at Shark's Club Billiards Bar and Grill, owner Mitchell Roepke said.
"We're a blue-collar, working-class establishment and they're the smokers. ... I'm losing $11,000 in sales in July," Roepke said.
But Connie Olson, executive director of Community Action for Tobacco Free Living, a group that pushed for the ban, said some of the negative talk becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"All customers hear are bartenders complaining. Who wants to hear that?" Olson said. "They have to get past this personal vendetta. Don't do that to customers. They need to promote their businesses as smoke-free."
Restaurants reported faring better than bars.
Family restaurants like Applebee's and Perkins, and upscale places like Black and Tan, where smoking had previously been allowed at the bar, saw no ill effect in their July revenues.
At The Bar in downtown Appleton, regular lunchtime diner Carl Schuh of Black Creek compared before and after.
"It's cleaner, fresher and airier," he said.
Several businesses said they were boosting advertising and offering specials to encourage customers to come back, while still lobbying officials for a reversal on the ban.
Sorry, my mistake. Post 33, not 32.
"I agree, which is why the government should get out of the health care business (Medicare and Medicaid). And also the retirement business (Social Security) while they are at it. People should be responsible for their own health and finances."
the only idiot here is you with your whining.
"You are missing my point - smoke all you want, just don't expect me to pay for it (through taxes)"
Your argument is inconsistant. Since you seem to be so hung up on taxes, would you be in favor of government intervention on;
hot coffee, fast food, weapons, motorcycle helmuts, car seatbelts, swimming pools, knives, hammers, or any number of
items one could list that could protect the general public from harm?
The applicable assumption being that voting on anything, and getting a majority makes it a valid law.
I will propose outlawing smelly fat people. I expect to get a majority, and am fascinated wondering about the fallout...
"These people who enact these bans truly do not get it and end up running taverns and bars out of business."
Don't be fooled. They get it and their goal is being realized, one bar at a time.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm not advocating staying home or not staying home... although for every one that dies of alcohol poisoning there will probably be 10 less DWI deaths. I'm just saying why go out? It's not all THAT much fun anyway.
Please refrain from personal attacks as per FR policy. If you have a point to put across, do it in a polite way.
"I love the smoking ban in Hennepin County (Minneapolis) here.
When I go out to the bar after work, I can do so without being in a cloud of smoke.
My clothes no longer smell like I've been sleeping in an ashtray.
My lungs feel better too."
Yes and no.
I'm disappointed he broke his no new taxes promise.
OTOH, if it pi$$ed off an obvious jerk like you, than it must have done some good.
It is you who is being incosistent, I am consistent.
I don't want the government to interfere with fast foods, etc. Like I said, you are responsible for your actions - don't expect me to pay for your healthcare if you screw your health up.
Why do the anti-smokers insist on all or nothing?
They go on about smelly clothes and absolute panic for the health of others, but nothing rational in the way of a solution ever comes out of their mouths...
This smoking thing has always amazed me. The government subsidizes tobacco farmers. The government sues tobacco companies because smoking kills and causes disease. The government enacts smoking bans in communities for the same reason. The government gets all the tobacco settlement money for smoking cessation programs but the money goes into the general fund where it is wasted like the bulk of our tax dollars. The government wants you to smoke so they collect more taxes. Cigarette smoking in public places becomes illegal but growing tobacco and selling it remains legal.
Sorry, you're wrong.
You are imposing your "rights" on me.
Now drag your ass outside and light up and the rest of us can have some fresh air.
I apologize to you, razoroccam. I should have read all of your posts. I assumed (bad thing to do) that you were for this ban. I'm glad to hear that you do not support these bans.
I understand that you feel that you are paying, through taxes, for the medical care of smokers. There are many arguments on both sides of that issue and I'm not an expert in statistics but I'm sure that other FReepers are. I do know that through our taxes we are also paying for medical care for overweight people who feed at the unhealthy troughs of the "fast food chains" and pay for their poor choices with serious medical issues.
I think your argument about taxes being paid out to fund medical needs of smokers should belong on its own thread. This thread is about smoking bans, not taxes. :)
"Problem is that I get taxed to fund Medicare, Medicaid, etc so that those who choose to smoke can then get treated for bronchitis, lung cancer, MI, TIA, stroke, etc."
Well, you'll be pleased to know that although I'm a smoker, it hasn't cost you 1¢ for my health care. In fact, in the last 5 years the only time I've been to the doctors was for a sinus infection 3 1/2 years ago when I moved from CT to SC. The doctor told me that I just needed to adjust to the different pollens. My non-smoking friends seem to run to the doctors all the time for this and that!
I didn't think it would surprise you........but the proponents of these bans will never see the forest for the trees.
If you don't like smoking find a non-smoking place, talk to the owner, or open your own - don't take away the choices of others to satisfy your selfish desires.
And that is all these smoking bans do, satisfy selfish desires of a choice few people. The dupes of the ban proponents have no clue just how much money is involved in getting these things passed. The people pushing them are not being altruistic - they are collecting HUGE paychecks and the more bans they get passed the bigger those checks become.
I've been following this since the 1980s - I know what I'm talking about, and I've never collected a penny to do it.
So why aren't you campaigning instead for medicare not to treat all smoking-related diseases? I'll support you all the way!
Or are you just blowing smoke up our collective skirts?
"you support any and all government regulation of unhealthy activities"
I don't support any government regulation - in none of the post have I said that.
Go back to my original statement - I just don't want to pay for your healthcare if you choose to smoke. That is your business, your life, your money, just don't dip your hands in my pocket.
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